Evangelists not allowed
Some people don't get Taoism. I can accept that. I don't mind talking to friends about it, because I think it is a belief and knowledge that is worth sharing with friends. But what I can't take, are how some True Christians turn the whole conversation into an exercise in evangelizing this lost cause.
A very dear Christian friend asked, 'You mean you worship your ancestors?'
If I were to rebuke, 'And you mean you worship a God that you don't even know exists,' a True Christian will try to make me 'feel better' by saying that the devil has blinded my senses, and has made me said blasphemous things against God. That God is all forgiving, and because Jesus Christ has paid for my sins by dying on the cross, he will love me still, and pray for me to understand the Truth one day.
You tell me, what is wrong with being Taoist and praying to your ancestors?
'It is not necessary to go and do the Cheng Beng rituals, because God provides,' my Christian friend says. ‘And these people are dead, you don’t worship them.’
But what if I WANTED to do the rituals, because I choose to. Because I love the people who cared for me, who came before me, and they were Taoists… and even if I choose to believe that God provides, these people don't, they didn’t because they didn’t have my fortunes to have you care for my unsaved soul and they hoped that their children, including me, and my children after me, would do this for them after they've left me. And because of this very simplistic reason, I perform the rituals, without questioning.
What if I'm doing this simply because I love the past of who I was, and therefore I choose to pay them my respects in this manner? Is there anything wrong with it?
The True Christian who loves to bear fruit for God, will tell me that he will pray for me, for my understanding, and for me to accept Christ. That such thinking of mine is not because of my insane fanaticity, but really because Satan is speaking into my ears and telling me to forsake my One and True Saviour.
My questions:
Have I sinned for not believing that Jesus died on the cross?
Yes. But the True Christian says it is not my fault because Satan is working his ways on me. But if I choose to believe and listen to the Word of God, I will understand things slowly, and later, I will be forgiven when I confess my sins.
Fine. I can accept that I want to hear the Word of God. I choose to honour the Sabbath. Will I go to heaven?
No, not until you accept God. Or so says the True Christian.
And what is that?
You have to confess your sins to God and accept Him as your personal saviour. That all Gods are false except him. And that He is the One True God. Says the True Christian.
OK. I believe that there is a God. Maybe there is One True God. I want to live the Christian way. So, how do I do that?
Being baptized. By Submersion. Or Sprinkling. The True Christian tells me.
Oh, so if I soak myself in the water, I will become a True Christian, like you. Otherwise I won't a True Christian. Because I was not soaked into a pool of water, I am not Christian.
And then after I become a True Christian, I am expected to do this thing that the bible calls 'bear fruits' and 'spread His Word'. For I am a new hope, living proof that even hopeless cases are not forsaken by God, because all it took was a little more time to 'bear fruit' like me.
GAaahhhhhhhYou tell me which part of this kind of evangelism makes sense?
I tell you what makes sense to me, as a person who works with words and plays with words. The Holy Bible is the oldest and longest running publication in the whole world. It has been edited over many, many, many times, over many many years and it is therefore a very thoroughly edited book. It is the one international bestseller that will continue to be an international bestseller for a very very long time to come. It is also the most translated book in the world, its outreach is THAT great.
The Holy Bible is also a BOOK. And a book that sells that well has to have had very very good writers who are very very very very good at persuading you into believing that everything in it is Truth.
And evangelists lap up the words of these people (humans, mind you), like they're the most precious diamonds in the world. They don't question, because to question is to be un-Christian, to be unworthy of God's love. They just accept.
The way I see it, evangelists, calling themselves True Christians have reduced the Almighty God into a cruel entity that jealously tortures and destroys everyone who does not love, worship and glorify Him above everyone and everything else forever.
By the way, coincidentally, 'evangelist' is also the anagram for 'evil agents'.
How apt.
So God will strike me dead and send me to hell for calling The Holy Bible'a book'. And I suppose at the end of this, you evangelists who love God so much will say you'll still pray for my sinful soul and for Satan to be thrown off my back so that I can receive the Word of God ASAP. After all, what am I, but a hopeless case, and even though I deserve to go to hell for denying God, God is patient and merciful, and that He offers His mercy even to the very end. The antidote to my spiritual death is Jesus, and this antidote is available at all times. What I am, but a lost cause, and yet, I should fear nothing because, God shows mercy to all the lost causes, even me.
I don't get these people. I really don't.
May 13th, 2005 at 5:36 pm
whatever rocks their boat, makes them a better more functional person in society, so be it.
on the other hand, being submissive sometimes is good
May 13th, 2005 at 6:29 pm
One thing I never understood about my fellow Christians was the way they go about things - condemning people, forcing things down people’s throats AND judging people before even looking at themselves.
I’m seen as a blacksheep because 1) I believe religion is personal (so I don’t go around preaching it to other people) and 2) I believe in walking the talk. PLUS I teach sociology which covers sexuality and other religions - big no-no.
What I can’t understand is that if God and Jesus Christ is loving, understanding, patient and open-minded (he didn’t go around yelling outloud that the women who committed adultery was a sinner when everyone else was doing it)…why aren’t some Christians like that when they preach to follow him and his teachings?
I have sort of resort to thinking that perhaps this is the way the world works on a regular basis - some people are just meant to think otherwise of our religion, or ourselves. Let them be. At the end of the day, I answer to God for how I lead my life…not them. Let me decide.
So you see…not only non-Christians can’t stand hypocrites like that.
May 13th, 2005 at 6:48 pm
Let me so humbly explain that the above mentioned behaviour is very typical of certain denominations of the Christian faith. I just want to say that, please please do not include Catholics into that group.
Very often Christians beleive Catholics will all go to hell because we encourage traditions and sometimes assimilate other “rituals.” We too pray for our dearly departed, not because we consider the dead gods, but because we loved them and thus we show our respect for all tehy have done for us. There is nothing wrong with that, and there is likewise nothing wrong with other religions honoring thier dead. Yes, God does provide for the dead, but that doesn’t mean we should “simply abandon” them to the ground.
Thank you, to the fellow Christians who very often show that they respect other religions and love thier neighbours. Thank you all, for giving us a bad name. < - This bit I’m being sarcastic, yup
May 13th, 2005 at 7:01 pm
urgh…u should meet the jehovah witness’. they’re so bloody annoying. they’ll insist on trying to convince u to meet them again and will say ur not open minded when u refuse.
bullshit. they’re as annoying as salesmen who don’t get it that u don’t want what they’re selling.
then they’ll go on and on and talk about how god has a name, and isn’t it nice for god to have a name since we all have names? well, since he’s the only god, he should be called god. if i was the only human, i would be called “human.”
i once slammed the bloody door in their face just because i couldnt stand their talk about how im “closed minded.”
yeah, these ppl are annoying. the government should make a hunting season for evangelists just to cut the annoyance down
May 13th, 2005 at 7:37 pm
i’m a Catholic. and i’ve been one since i was born. i don’t mind going to Christian churches, or join in with their prayers and all. after all, we are praying to the same God.
what i don’t understand is, why they (some Christians) question us (Catholics) about praying to Mother Mary and the Saints. what’s wrong with that? and recently, i was asked why i prayed to the cross or kiss the cross. i was told it’s wrong to do that. this came from my own bf who is a Christian.
i just hope these people will someday accept what other religions do and please respect it, not try and brainwash us.
May 13th, 2005 at 8:49 pm
actually i personally suspect that this situation only happens in countries where multiple religions is the norm. more on this later.
May 13th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
I generally don’t mind any religion, and I think everyone is free to practise what religion they like. But just DON’T start trying to convert me, or I’ll never speak to you again.
May 14th, 2005 at 12:00 am
i’m an atheist and some religious fanatics find that unacceptable. i’ve came across some strangers at bus stops and they tried to convince me into embracing their belief which they claim is the ‘right one’. i think that’s plain rude, they said it like i’m doing something wrong and disgraceful, just because i don’t believe in God’s existence. i’d try to avoid these conversations if possible.
May 14th, 2005 at 12:09 am
no comments…
but,
P.S. The Holy Bible iz Not Just a BOOK!
May 14th, 2005 at 12:29 am
Well, right now I only need 1 bible.. oops, meant novel, The Da Vinci Code.
May 14th, 2005 at 12:39 am
the others share my views perhaps, so this is dedicated to sokdotcom:
i find it amazingly amusing that you have only seen a message in my post which was not a message at all. i didn’t say the The Bible is just a book. If you were clever enough you would have realized I wasn’t talking about Christianity, nor was I talking about Protestants OR Catholics OR whatever.
your no comment and no brainer feedback is precisely what i meant by blind faith.
and if you didn’t realize already, duh, i wasn’t talking about the entire religion, i was referring to True Christians. the capitalization of the letter ‘T’ might perhaps enlighten and convince wannabe crusaders or evangelists or whatever that i am a lost cause.
what was it already? thou shalt not impose religion unto others.
and read, read, read. IDIOTS. alan was right, you give a bad name to not only believers, but to the entire human race.
May 14th, 2005 at 9:59 am
Yes, I truly agree with Alan & Louisa.
I’m a Catholic and used to have a hard time being questioned by other Christian about my faith.or being ‘evangelized’ to leave my church.
Louisa, you can read the book “in Defence..” I believe it is sold in the church. It explains the doctrine of the church.
I personally believe that one’s faith is one’s business.Faith accompanied by actions are very much better than blind faith.The way these ‘evangelists’ are going, sheesh.. everyone will love to hate ‘Christians’.:evil:
So, never worry minishorts. I respect your beliefs. That’s a right given to everyone.:smile:
May 14th, 2005 at 11:26 am
my favorite religious saying “a thousand buddhas may point the way but a man has to walk the way alone”.
salvation and grace will come to those who seek it. and it will be different for each individual. one’s beliefs is personal and it is not for others to trample on that.
p.s. was born a catholic too LOL
May 14th, 2005 at 2:24 pm
i’ve been a christian for a couple of years, and the things that these bunch do never failed to piss me off. it pisses me off before i got saved and it still pisses me off now. but i learn to forgive (although it is more like ignore) these bunch simply because they usually mean well regardless how wayward it can sometimes be. but many believe evangelizing is like a pyramid scheme, and sadly the doctrine has become the gospel truth.
christians have disappointed me many times, as many as i do them (i bore tattoos, which is a big brouhaha to them). religion, like christianity is a personal thing, which is why the good book is written in parables, because christ wants us to decide for ourselves. if christianity should have been as absolute as some protestants deem it to be, i’m sure the good book have been just ten pages, at most.
when christians tell me catholics will end up in hell, i just can’t buy this bullshit. mother theresa and all the popes in hell? i don’t buy it.
the truth is, nobody knows. any belief is solely based on faith, not facts. any religious conformance is to aid modern humans to lead a better lifestyle (to be more christ-like, buddha-like, etc). penance is to delete guilt, reward in heaven is to encourage, eternity in hell is to create fear, all done in the name of God.
christians seem to forget that the good book is an aid for betterment during our time on earth, to make full use of our short period on earth since we have an eternity in heaven (if you get there, that is). embracing christianity and the bible is not a passport.
May 14th, 2005 at 5:10 pm
the holy bible … to me…. IS JUST A BOOK.
Sue me.
May 14th, 2005 at 11:22 pm
I believe in Christianity but apparently I don’t have what it takes to “be a Christian”. It’s sad to say that people like these pushes me away even further.
Choice of religion should be personal - only between you and your God. No one has the right to condemn other religions or pester others to convert to their religion.
May 15th, 2005 at 1:12 am
Ritual? What rituals?
I don’t see commemorating the death, the dead person that have blood-ties to you, the ancestor that have brought us to Earth (no God please…for now), can be equates to something as UNNECESSARY by the Jesuits…
Why in the world would some simple gesture of THANK YOU, twice a year, was being justified as something WRONG or UNNECESSARY?
If I have help you, would you thank me first, the immediate person, or to the God first? I would definitely have my target person for complements defined as clear as possible… at least the target would appreciates/response to me immediately, not because I wanna go to heaven, just because as a symbol of courtesy, one thing that distinctively marked us as civilised beings from the uncivilised brethren.
Being a typical Chinese, practising the Major 3, Taoism-Confucianism-Buddhism, MEDIOCRITY is the way to seek eternal bliss, where the fruit of joy not necessary something that i’ll ENJOY in the afterlife but what i’ve got left for my descendant. Being selfless, freeing oneself from desires is what Buddhism about, and that’s what I’m trying to pursue, too, but the selfishness within me is hindering, in some ways…
So, what do this Jesuits prefer? Do good deeds, spread the Gospel because of what purpose? Serving God? I don’t an Almighty being need SERVANT? Only weaklings like us human have to enslave someone/something to do their bidding out of disabilities or laziness, how could we claim ourselves, the creation of God, a SERVANT?
Isn’t it awkward telling your children to say Thank You to you and pray in your name, bla bla bla… and list goes on and on and on…?
I believe the God wouldn’t felt a damn thing about us having a blogs or forum on IT (i’m no sexist) as a true God should be free from FEELINGS and DESIRE.
May 15th, 2005 at 1:18 am
I believe we all have the freedom to believe whatever religion as long as the religion do not contradict our commmon sense and our well-being. I come from a missionary school, and even though I’m not a Christian, I was fine in that school, cos we all respect in each of our own religion. Respect of each other choice is the keyword. When someone say no, just back-off. Some True Christians are just so bull-headed. Really piss me off. At times, they are worst than insurance agents and credit card telemarketers (sp?).
May 15th, 2005 at 11:38 am
haha. i dun get them either. you arent the only one.
and i dun wish to understand either
May 15th, 2005 at 3:46 pm
well yes!! I have been in those damn sickening situations before… just who the hell they think they are… I dont mind them respecting and believeing their own religion, but why BOTHER US?? man!! Did Jesus ask them to be bothersome to their fellow man?? Sheesh…:evil:
If jesus was so great a being (as according to them) would he give us the freedom to choose what we want? Why are his follwers so pesky?? Did he teach his follwers to be so narrow minded that there is only one true god? I beg to differ…
Afterall religion are only but a belief and ppl believe it to give ourselves a sense of sercurity and makes us feel at ease with our life. To give us a sort of hope and to push us forward to our daily life.
I wonder is Jesus really that pushy? Or it is the follwers themselves that misinterprete Jesus’s words and become PUSHY!!!:evil:
May 16th, 2005 at 1:43 am
madish:
So you’re saying that your religion or believes (if you do have one) is so pure that everyone in it is perfect and does not differ nor self-righteously follow their own intepretation of their scriptures?
Everyone has a decision of they own free will. That is all. Ignore the the “salesman” that is everyone right. But if they get on your nerve I’m sorry for you.
Maybe you would prefer religion like Islam where it is FORCE upon you whether you like it or not.
Yes it’s starting to be a Hate post / Hate Blog
May 16th, 2005 at 8:28 am
I have only this to say to Fellow:
If you didn’t notice already, no one has even labeled this a hate post, except you, and after several re-reads, there is no feelings of hate-whatsoever. annoyance towards ‘force-evangelists’ is not a new topic, and as usual, i am not the first person who has voiced her opinion about this continuing situation.
Fellow, if you don’t mind. labellings not allowed. if you have a problem, i urge you to mail me personally and we can settle this outside of this post. another post, and this entry will be forgotten completely.
Thank you for your civil behaviour, btw.
May 16th, 2005 at 9:28 am
Fellow, I think it’s FORCED, with a D
have a nice day
May 16th, 2005 at 9:35 am
lol!
wah liao, my previous comment look like spam ka???
May 16th, 2005 at 11:45 am
sorry dear cap… just unbanned your IP…
didn’t ban you lah… just had to moderate you a bit. blame it on spam karma, evil thing, but necessary.
May 16th, 2005 at 7:47 pm
I became a Christian some years back. Sometime I wonder why I did it. It’s not exactly a walk in the park. The restrictions are plentiful. The rules can be a little tough. And as if that didn’t suck enough, it’s also pretty unglamourous. People think you’re a nerd. People think you’re naive. Gullible. Silly. Pathetic.
To make matters worse, let’s say I die and end up in hell anyway with the rest of the world, then I’d probably kick myself for not entertaining that hot chick who was coming on to me, or for not ordering a few more rounds of beer, or for not accepting that payoff from my supplier.
In all honesty, even as a Christian, I doubt if I’d be able to convince anyone I was truly going to Heaven. Heck, sometimes, I can’t even convince myself. And yet I feel some kind of joy being a Christian - it’s weird. But I suppose that’s where the blind faith comes in. After all, isn’t “Faith” believing in something you have no knowledge of?
And oh, didn’t someone say ignorance is bliss?
May 18th, 2005 at 9:20 am
[...] , blogs. Didn’t I reiterate already that I was am not the first to be offended by your efforts that do nothing, of course, but mean good. Like many others, I’m merely being ungrateful, and [...]
March 2nd, 2006 at 12:20 am
Well, my friend, you have just encountered what my late mentor/pastor calls these kinds of Christians - Theologically unsound and ignorant Christians who have no idea what true Christianity is in the first place.
Make no mistake. We go through it all the time. Irrespective of who we are, we are all encountering fired - up and high - spirited disciples, albeit misguided ones. They are so bent on teaching and preaching Christ but the first thing was the respect He had for the sinners. Make no mistake as it may seem awkward comparing non - Christians to “sinners”, but that was a simple thing that Jesus practised. “Judge not and you shall not be judged” was what He said.
First of all, the Christians should be shaking your hand and commending you for “honouring your mother and father”, which is one of the 10 Commandments. I know you are not Christian but it can be reinterpreted as Christian. Besides, holding a joss-stick and bowing 3 times in front of a tablet bearing your ancestor’s names is not worship, but rather a way of showing that we are human; that we are not entirely spirit, but mind and body as well.
“Bearing fruit” and “carrying out the Word of God” can also mean living it. It reminds me of today’s Ash Wednesday Gospel message - “(But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father” (Matthew 6:1). Refer to verses 2 - 4, 16 as well if you have a bible.
If thats not enough, the Bible also says that not all who calls Jesus “Lord” will enter heaven. John 6:44 is also interesting - “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent Me draw him”. Good point? God will call you to be a Christian if He wills you to, not these True Christians.
More to come. I’m here to help if there’s anything you need. Heck, I’ll even speak to them. In the meantime, head down to Xavier Hall (in St. Francis Xavier’s Church, Jln Gasing PJ), and get a book entitled “Straight To Catholics” by Father (now Bishop) Paul Tan Chee Ing, SJ.