Define this
At the weekend I met up with a few people who were quite, really, impossible for me to define.
We were having dinner, and this person wanted to order a dish that contained beef. The husband, was more accomodating, and noting that I don't take the meat, said that we could order Pork, Fish and Chicken dishes instead. I said it wasn't necessary, but the kind man insisted–it was his decision after all, he was the guy who would foot the bill, and then he asked me, 'Is it the smell?'
My answer was simply, 'I just don't take it.'
The wife wasn't very nice at all, she sulked and then she said it, 'You must learn how to take beef, my dear, we're Christians and we have to take beef.'
Wow. What an interesting revelation. I didn't know that God said in order to prove my allegiance to him, I have to eat beef.
But before this, an interesting note about myself: I don't take beef because of my upbringing. My mother's a devout Taoist and goes on vegetarian meals twice a month and on other religious occasions, and we never ever cook beef at home.
My dad's a devout Christian and he takes beef occasionally. He has never faulted my mother for her religious choices, and never ever, ever, taken beef in her presence. I walk in my dad's shoes, except I'm not exactly a very devout Christian, so to speak, because I do not do very Christian things, and occasionally, in my quiet times with God, I ask him about Kuan Yin and question the strange things in the bible… (Dear God, why did You have to be so contradicting and, er, wordy?).
You see, I've no problems in driving Mum to the temple, and I have no problems in lighting joss sticks in memory of my dead grandparents. I'm no problems in bowing my head in respect to images and deities of the Lord Buddha. I've no problems in helping my mother fold the papers for burning on her religious festival–it is a mark of respect ANYWAY, and I have certainly no problems in helping my mother prepare the fruit and flowers for worshipping on big days like the 'pai tee kong' during the ninth day of CNY, and bringing her out for vegetarian dinners on the 1st and 15th days of the lunar calendar months. Sometimes, for the heck of convenience, I go on vegetarian diets too, and sometimes, it is refreshing to be vegetarian–I've even contemplated it several times before, and God knows you don't have to be a Buddhist to turn vegetarian.
Haven't I prayed for Mum to accept God too, (so that, for Heaven's sake, she can start eating beef)you ask, so that I don't have to do the strange things she does like arranging the fruit and chicken for the altar? I've prayed for that, oh yes, that's one of my prayers for the 2006, but I'm not the type who, God-forbid, EVANGELIZES, my mother, and I am definitely not the type who'll say that she's worshipping a mere image of a dead person who might-or-might-not-exist.
Besides, I've seen miracles happening in the Taoist belief too, and surely there has to be a connection somewhere in the great spiritual divide–something that none of us as feeble, human beings wrapped in the flesh can comprehend right now.
Surely the differing beliefs in the masses has to be God's will, of some kind, and we know my mother has the free will to choose. So no, I don't question, I don't judge, and I don't say that she worships stones and dead people. (To put it crudely,Jesus is a dead person too, and we worship him anyway, right?)
It's her choice, and whatever she chooses is between God and my mother, and I have no right to dabble in that area. All I can do is to do my best to be a good daughter to a single mother, who is trying very hard to understand the reasons why I'm going to church again after five years. God knows it's hard for her to accept the fact that I'm returning to Christianity again, but if she can come to church with me sometimes, and allow me my personal choices in life, it's the least I can do–respect her choices and do my very best.
And here's the deal, apart from not taking beef, I also don't take mutton, nor deer, nor ostrich nor rabbit… I also do not take petai, and bitter gourd. Why? I don't know, I just don't take these things, and I don't want to try them.
Maybe I'm allergic to these things, maybe it's the smell. I don't know, but I don't eat these things and I'm not an adventurous person… and look, I'm not even forbidding people to order them in my presence… I'm not asking for everyone to accomodate me. And besides, I'm not the one who grimaces in horror when someone orders peashoots, I'm not the type who goes, 'Yuck I don't like spring onions,' and cries foul when people eat foods I don't take in front of me.
All I ask, is a bit of respect, and keep those holy-than-thou definitions of what makes a good Christian to yourself, please. How other people pray, how other people decide to revere their God(s), that's up to them, who are we as humans to decide and judge, and teach?
I know that even if I were a practising Buddhist, and I still took meat on religious festivals, I'd be offended if some holier-than-thou monk-wannabe comes up to me and reprimands me for chewing into a morsel of prawn. Imagine this, 'You must not eat meat at all, you're a Buddhist, a Buddhist shouldn't take any meat.'
I mean, hello? You wanna be holy, your choice, if I have to sin and be punished by God, now please, leave that to God and leave me alone.
What we all need, is a little bit of respect. You don't even have to tolerate my choices, you can judge and criticize me if you like (and say that not taking beef makes me a bad Christian hurhur), but please, do not do it in my presence. You can say bad things about me behind my back, you can tell God to please pray for my lost soul for the choices I have made (maybe pray, dear God, please help Claire understand that she does not know you very well because she refuses to even try beef). But respect means keeping rude words to yourself, and not saying these things outloud, and all good Christians should really learn how to do that the right way.
January 11th, 2006 at 11:33 am
Interestingly enough, my background is the same as yours. My mum is a buddhist and my dad is a christian. Often times, ppl offer to help pray for my mum to ‘turn to the good side’. But for so long, I’ve always respected my mums religion and she does so likewise and I feel that sometimes, they don’t understand. My upbringing in church and in my life has always taught me to respect others and their religion. I light joss sticks, i go to the temple, and help fold papers, all to respect my ancestors and the religion.
So when I read this entry, it’s like “Hey, sounds like me, yeah?”
Bottom line is, its the choice made by the person and God. Not for us to judge.
January 11th, 2006 at 11:41 am
Her attitude is appaling. You don’t need to explain why you don’t take beef — saying “I just don’t take it” was sufficient. It’s your body, and you have the right to determine what goes in it. Being a courteous host means being conscious of your guests’ diet.
January 11th, 2006 at 11:45 am
cheer to that!
January 11th, 2006 at 12:27 pm
I love this entry !
V well written ~~
January 11th, 2006 at 12:30 pm
my mum and her side of the family are devoted taoists. my dad is a taoist-turned-freethinker. although they don’t consume beef and terrapins, my parents never stopped my sis and I from consuming those meats when we eat out. still, we know better than to bring beef home. bovril is the only exception. i’d die without it.
January 11th, 2006 at 12:42 pm
Eh minishorts, I was expecting a lovey-dovey post about weddings and how it changed your life etc. I didn’t expect you to write about food.
Anyway, what about people who ask Muslims to eat pork? I’ve encountered that a lot, and how they would roll their eyes and question it. I mean it’s my religious beliefs, and I don’t question theirs either, so shouldn’t they learn to be a little bit understanding and accommodating?
January 11th, 2006 at 12:49 pm
It’s ladies like that, who distort the image of what Christians are supposed to be, and discourage more and more people… I mean beef worr ~ what the…
January 11th, 2006 at 1:22 pm
Christians are and can abd a weird fucked lot - I should know, I’m from a christian family….
One of the main things I’ve got against it is the issue of choice. Looks like once you’re a christian everything is divine destiny - not much choice for you. lol
On the over all… all hardcore religious enthusiasts are just weird…
January 11th, 2006 at 1:53 pm
Curiousity - ‘ once you’re a christian everything is divine destiny – not much choice for you. lol’
Calvinists etc believe in PREDESTINATION only. Some other denominations tend towards ‘Freedom of will only’ BUT MOST beleive in both Predestination and freedom of the will (as a combined element in the world). So NOT all Christians beleive that everything is Predestined.
Most churches that believe in ‘Predestination Only’ are actually a slim minority. So your comment is rather biased to be lumping all Christians into a minority subgroup.
‘all hardcore religious enthusiasts are just weird’
I agree, it is the same as all hardcore enthusiasts of any group, including Hardcore Anti-religionists, hard Core Madonna Fans, etc etc. As soon as a person is overly zealous of anything, that person often misses the forest because there are too many trees in the way.
There is a belief among a lot of groups that if you are not FULL ON, then you are NOT ON. I’ve encounted it with Political groups (yah Commrad), religious groups (You didn’t convert someone in the last five minutes! oh no, you’ve fallen away!), music fans (any one who doesn’t like classical music is just listening to noise), Athiest groups (you believe in a God … oh, you must be sooo dumb) etc etc
[Bits in brackets are comments made to me by the groups in question and NOT my beleifs. They were added as examples of what you might hear.]
Let’s face it, there is a tendancy in the world to like to label everyone else with a ‘Them and Us’ attitude.
I think Minishorts post is good example of someone trying to break down the ‘Them and Us’ barriers and put a ‘Mutual Respect’ thing in place, only to find she is being labeled by others with a ‘Them and Us’ type thing.
So please Curiousity, don’t slap such a broad brush over all Chrstianity with something ONLY a minority of them believe in.
Minishorts - As a Christian and Vegetarian I’ve also experienced a lot of prejudice in my eating habits. People like to throw quotes at me saying I am weak willed or weak in the Spirit etc, but it’s all just self serving non-sense.
Much enjoyed your post, as it shows one of the problems often facing Christians who are trying to do the right thing by their families and others by showing respect, only to have others try to shoot them down in flames for not fitting into their world view.
And, as I mentioned above, it appears in all walks of life, not just the Christian walk. If you don’t fit into another’s world view, they like to slap an ‘Us and Them’ label on you in order to try to get you to conform.
January 11th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
Hello, the famed minishorts with her PMS panties. You cannot fault other people’s wife for acting that way you know? Maybe she also got period that day leh? PMS leh? Maybe heavy flow somemore? You of all ppl should understand what, having been a downright prick to some people on the basis of your period…
Right? right?
your IP is 60.48.220.168 and you are a coward with no balls with coconut brains that don’t understand cohesion. la la la
January 11th, 2006 at 3:29 pm
Very well written and I admire your courage to speak freely about religious issue in our day-to-day life. I have to admit, sometimes I have some phobia on Christians cos they always tend to ‘preach’ and your entry gave me a sense of relief cos there’s still ‘liberal’ Christians out there.
January 11th, 2006 at 3:57 pm
it is plain rude to comment about one’s food preference in front him/ her…religion or no religion.
January 11th, 2006 at 5:07 pm
While I agree with what minishorts said about pushing idelogies down other people’s throat, I think it is an over reaction to the whole matter. The lady was only trying to be nice and encouraging but it could have been misinterpreted. There are many aunts out there (especially those who live very sheltered lives) who don’t know what the hell they are saying and really can be quite petty. We should rise up to the occassion and not get too flabbergasted.
January 11th, 2006 at 5:21 pm
well-written. =) and it’s definitely not an over reaction. after all, one thought leads to another and that’s how a blog post is formed. anyway, what the woman said was certainly ridiculous but somehow i’m, not sure that she meant christians have to eat beef. guess she just wasn’t used to the idea of a christian practising buddhist, um, practices. the main thing in the end is to respect one another, odd practices or not. hope you had a good time in singapore.
January 11th, 2006 at 5:25 pm
I totally agree with Sean.
I remembered Bridget Jones’s mother commented that Colin Firth married a Japanese women…’cruel race’. Aunties are after all aunties.
But of course, shoving ppl with your creed and belief with the reason of being nice or ‘i just want the best for you’ is just lame.
January 11th, 2006 at 5:40 pm
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
January 11th, 2006 at 5:59 pm
People love to pigeon hole.
January 11th, 2006 at 6:51 pm
Hello
Wouldn’t you say that “God’s Will” would be a form of predestination? I have yet to meet a christian that doesn’t believe in “God’s Will”… and it can get absurd.. it’s just not limited to a minority.
January 11th, 2006 at 7:32 pm
I am a christian, and I don’t find myself evangelizing that much either. Because for some odd reason, I don’t feel like the person that I am is worthy enough to actually evangelize to others, so to speak, since I’m bearing a pretty bad testimony ..
But anyway, I agree with you on what you’ve said. It is between them and God and none of us can shove our beliefs down other people’s throats. Not forcefully, anyway. About beef … I never knew that LOL.
January 11th, 2006 at 7:35 pm
A good post. I agree with your sentiments.
January 11th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
‘You must learn how to take beef, my dear, we’re Christians and we have to take beef.’
huh? i never knew that being a christian HAVE to take beef…..
i eat beef simply because i love to eat beef never for the reason that, i , being a christian i HAVE to eat beef.
January 11th, 2006 at 8:53 pm
ughhh that bit where u imagined a monk would reprimand u for eating beef..
it happened to me in national service. every sunday we go to the temple and ‘pray’(i bring my chick lit along to read) and then we eat a veggie meal(read:chinese food finally).. and i go back and indulge in some ikan kembung and the sole dumb chinese trainer said, “eh, today cannot eat meat”.
I want to eat meat when I want to. Yeah.
January 11th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
Curiousity - Learn to READ - you said:
‘once you’re a christian everything is divine destiny’
Emphasis on the EVERYTHING - so you are the ONE WHO WAS SAYING the EVERYTHING was predestination which is WHAT I WAS OBJECTING TO - so don’t try to TWIST it, as I SAID:
‘ BUT MOST beleive in both Predestination and freedom of the will (as a combined element in the world). So NOT all Christians beleive that everything is Predestined.’
Now you are trying to make it seem like I am saying that a Minority beleive in Predestination?
No, I didn’t say that and you and everyone else here who can read knows that.
I objected VERY CLEARLY to your comment that EVERYTHING was DESTINY - It’s NOT a MAJORITY Christian belief and your defense actually doesn’t do anything but prove your reading ability and logic abilities need a little bit of work. So STOP TRYING TO TWIST what I said, as I was very clear in my objections and you obviously can’t defend them.
And YES, I have meet some Christians who DO NOT beleive in Predestination … some denominations DO actually preach that.
As you said - ‘once you’re a christian everything is divine destiny’
CRAP CRAP CRAP CRAP!
As I said - ‘ BUT MOST beleive in both Predestination and freedom of the will (as a combined element in the world). So NOT all Christians beleive that everything is Predestined.’
So get real, admit you made a mistake and stop trashing Christians by chucking them all in the same heap and then pretending you didn’t.
Your words are here and very clear for all to read! So are mine.
Try to be more tolerant, and fro goodness sak, don’t try twisting other peoples words, it just makes YOU look like an idiot.
[Now let's all be friends or I shall taunt you some more]
January 11th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
Well Said!! If only everyone thinks the same way as you.
January 11th, 2006 at 10:33 pm
now what has not wanting to eat beef got to do with being a christian? As FAR as I know being a christian all my life, I’ve never heard such a person connecting christianity and beef together..
I mean seriously, what has beef got to do with being a christian?
January 11th, 2006 at 11:11 pm
Actually, let me tear this apart line by line, because I was trying to be as tolerant as possible, but the more I read it, the more I realise I’m up against a Hardcore Anti-Christian:
Christians are and can abd a weird fucked lot
I am assuming your abd is the normal net abrieviation meaning ‘At Best Description’ … so let’s have a look at that line - It’s Pure properganda and maliscious - lumping all Christians into the WEIRD FUCKED LOT basket - sorry, but your prejudice is showing. VERY OPENLY. It’s no more than your personal opinion which cannot be proven unless you have a good understanding of ALL CHRISTIANS and you can’t have that understanding unless you’ve met them all … have you met them all? I didn’t think so. So we are left with a line which is no more than an insult to all Christians everywhere including your family (and Minishorts and myself and any other Christian who is reading this).
I should know, I’m from a christian family….
Sorry, but YOUR FAMILY do not Christianity make. It’s what’s called a false logic, you have a small sample and are using it to judge a large group. I guess if you meet a group of five men wearing hats you’d assume that all men wear hats? No! Didn’t think so! Don’t judge all Christianity from the minority that you’ve met.
Just because you believe your family are a ‘Weird Fucked Lot’ (which is what you are saying as they are Christians and you have already made the supposition that ‘CHRISTIANS ARE AND AT BEST DESCRIPTION A WEID FUCKED LOT’) is no reason to slag all of Christianity into the same basket. I come from a family of Athiests, and I wouldn’t label all athiests on Earth ‘A wierd fucked lot’ just because I thought that of my family (which I don’t think that of my family though). It calls into question whether your problem is actually with Christianity or with your family.
One of the main things I’ve got against it is the issue of choice.
Well, I’ve already covered that. Some Denominations believe in PREDESTINATION ONLY, the majority as I clearly stated above beleive in BOTH PREDESTINATION and FREE WILL, and some denominations believe in ONLY FREE WILL.
So, unless there is a FOURTH option that I can’t see, you really DON’T have an issue of CHOICE, as there is at least one denomintaion in the world that must beleive in what you believe in.
‘Looks like once you’re a christian everything is divine destiny’
As I clearly argued before, the EVERYTHING IS DEVINE DESTINY thing is a MINOROTY BELIEF, so get your facts right.
not much choice for you.
Plenty of choice in any denomination that beleives in ‘FREE WILL ONLY’, so stop spreading lies about Christianity. Your prejudice is showing.
lol
yah, you gloat … but over what … you’ve obviously proven your lack of understanding of Christianity. I know Athiests who wouldn’t have made such stupid statements, and they certainly wouldn’t have tried to gloat over it either. Learn to be more tolerant.
‘On the over all… all hardcore religious enthusiasts are just weird…
As I said, all hardcore ANYTHING are just weird. The fact that you made such a non-sensical arguement against Christianity just proves that you have an issue with it (or your family), but as per my arguement, it obviously isn’t the one you stated. I take it from the ‘all hardcore religious enthusiasts are just weird’ you have a problem with anyone with a religious belief. Do you label anyone with a religious belief HARDCORE just because they don’t agree with you? You seem to be the HARDORE one here, lying about a religion. Then trying to twist it to make out you weren’t.
You should take your HATE CRIME (Because that is what it is) and go elsewhere. Or learn to be more tolerant.
Some facts you should learn:
PREDESTINATON ONLY - CALVINISTS & SOME OTHER PROTESTANT
BOTH - CATHOLISISM and MOST PROTESTANT
FREE WILL ONLY - ARMINIANS AND SOME PROTESTANT
Your words have convicted you! So stop being so intolerant you Religious Harcore Nazis! [And Athiest and Agnostic ARE religious beliefs - so you are being a Religious Harcore regardless of your beliefs by taking pot shots at Christianity which are just lies, intolerance and prejudice!]
January 12th, 2006 at 12:39 am
Breaking new ground here. Someone professing to not eat beef, yet happily eating disgusting foods such as pork, chicken & all sorts of other contaminated & horrible tasting things. (amazing)
Beef = number #1
Beef = good for the brain
Beef = versatile & excellent tasting!
Beef = cleaner than pork
Beef = cleaner than fowl
Beef = properly raised & much healthier than swine & fowl etc.
January 12th, 2006 at 1:23 am
ah, the white meat versus red meat routine?
January 12th, 2006 at 9:20 am
steve: yeah it’s a choice, you have a problem with differences of opinions, is that it?
January 12th, 2006 at 9:30 am
Note to Dabido(Teflon):
Calling people names such as:
Religious Harcore Nazis
it just makes YOU look like an idiot
Hardcore Anti-Christian
etc do not a convincing argument make. In fact it detracts from your argument. I’d also advise against the use of the pronoun “you” when striving for a logical and reasonable debate because this could lead to personal attacks, which in your case I think it did.
I personally think that while Curiousity did have a mild case of anti-Christian bias, you would have been more convincing if you had reacted in a less emotional manner. (I assume your aim was to convince, and not to rant)
PS. Minishorts: Good post btw.
January 12th, 2006 at 10:17 am
cool post but i need to get some facts right about some points you made about Buddhism. Well, we Buddhist eat meat too. Only those who are practicing Buddhism from China (they call them Mahayanese) don’t take meat. Those practicing the Teravadian (like those in Thai, India, Sri Lanka etc) they actually don’t mind having meat intake.
Most of my best friends are Christians but i really didn’t know that Christians HAVE to eat beef.
I stongly believe everyone got their own choice of religion. There’s no my-religion-is-better-than-yours kind of bull-crap, except to those extremist. Belive what you believe in, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. That’s my believe.
January 12th, 2006 at 11:57 am
Hi, my other half’s a staunt Taoist while I want to be a Christian. We both enjoy beef with spring onions thoroughly. She goes with me to Church while I follow her to temples. Life is okay-mah
January 12th, 2006 at 2:45 pm
Jesus is alive!
nice one minishorts. i love this post alot.
a agree with u! We have to respect everyones beliefs
God bless!!
January 12th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
Word, mini, word.
January 12th, 2006 at 5:12 pm
i follow my christian friends say “amen” after their prayers. i kneel and pray to kwan yin when i’m in Her temple. I say “nam mor or nee tor fut” with my hands clasped when i visited the buddhist shrine. only thing i haven’t done is say “bismillah…” in a mosque.
i eat everything that has their back facing the sky.
What am I?
January 12th, 2006 at 5:29 pm
Jen - first of all, Curiousity and I have sorted this out already. We’re kewl on this.
Second, you make yourself into a hypocrite when you take terms like:
‘Religious Harcore Nazis’
and
‘Hardcore Anti-Christian’
and tell me off for using them when I was using Curiousity’s TERMS and throwing them back.
NOTE: Curiousity used the HARDCORE RELIGIOUS term first.
‘all hardcore religious enthusiasts are just weird’
What you’ve basically said is Curiousity is allowed to call me that but when I use the term back I’m in the wrong??? Sorry, but if you were being unbaised then Curiousity and I would both be as bad as each other …
And telling me off for calling names … this is what I was reacting to.
‘Christians are and can abd a weird fucked lot’
So to you having someone use terms saying that Christians are a weird Fucked lot is just
a MILD BIAS, while my throwing back terms used against Christians is bad and makes me look like an idiot????
Sorry, your finger pointing is pointing back at yourself and showing your own bias.
Now if you think Curiousity calling me and other Christians ‘Weird fucked lot’ etc is MILD compared to what I said, then maybe you need to take a good look at what was actually said, and approach it objectively.
But, as I said, Curiosity and I have sorted this out and we’re cool with each other. As was explained to me, the ‘Weird Fucked Lot’ wasn’t what was meant, and I’ve accepted that. But like I wrote to Curiousity on my site, if you place any group you belong to and put it in place of the ‘Christian’ you’ll probably get a good understanding of what I was reacting to.
I’m sure if I called you ‘WEIRD AND FUCKED’, you wouldn’t be dismissing it as a mild bias.
I certainly didn’t and I think most the readers here understood WHY I was upset by the terms.
So don’t come here and tell me someone calling people ‘Weird Fucked and Hardcore’ is mild compared to me calling them ‘Hardcore’ back!
It really shows that you don’t care about religious intolerance and you are willing to stand up and tell people off for standing up against it.
I might add that me calling Curiousity ‘Hardcore’ is not name calling either, as the broad generalisation of calling Christians ‘Weird and fucked’ is actually a HARDCORE ANTI-CHRISTIAN stand … so it’s not name calling, as the label fitted what was written (as i said, Curiousity has since explained the term wasn’t ment to be so broad).
So take a deep breath and lets all be friends. okay????
My appologies to Curiousity for this coming up again.
January 12th, 2006 at 5:42 pm
Gosh, friendly bunch these Malaysians! Minishorts, (clearly a graduate of the Dr. Madhatter school of diplomacy).
Undernourished vegetarians abound. As do people who eat beef 3x each day for years and perhaps experience some constipation!
However it is most unusual in my (albiet limited) experience, for someone to shun the yummy tasty naturally raised beef but to eat the horrid piggy flesh, usually raised in unclean conditions & regadless tastes rather unappealing.
Your choice love, it is not my “problem” if your tastebuds get no treats and your tummy has to cope with repulsive fare.
January 12th, 2006 at 5:50 pm
Jen - actually, I’ve thought of a better way to tackle this and show you your own bias … and it’s a lot quicker and takes Curiousity out of the arguement.
Imagine someone came on this site and made the statement:
Jen’s friends are a weird fucked lot.
and
Jen’s hardcore friends are weird.
I then react by saying that person is a Hardcore Anti-Jen Friender.
What you’re trying to tell me by your reply is that the first person has a mild bias against your friends, while I am a name caller?
Sorry, but you’re so wrong, you’re biased.
January 12th, 2006 at 5:50 pm
i think its awesome how people can get so worked up over minor differences of opinions presented within a comments chain. hehe
January 14th, 2006 at 11:45 am
The Jesus we’re worshipping today as Christians is the resurrected Jesus and not a “dead person”.
January 15th, 2006 at 4:36 am
david,
Ya hor, what happened after he resurrected har? How was his life?
Just sharing, I am a Buddhist and as I knew Buddha is dead. He just ceased to exist anymore. Just like Neo, Trinity, Morphues and the rest of the people who live in Zion. Cool huh…
January 15th, 2006 at 11:34 am
Beefstew - to answer your questions:
‘Ya hor, what happened after he resurrected har?’
Jesus appeared before the apostles, and others. Then ascended to Heaven. [It's in the Bible.]
‘How was his life?’
So his life’s been pretty good since.
January 21st, 2006 at 10:33 am
Dabido(Teflon):
You misunderstand - I was just saying that making PERSONAL attacks when arguing an issue was a bad … strategy? … of arguing. For example, if someone had written on some site that
“Jen’s friends are a weird fucked lot”
wouldn’t it be a lot better to explain politely why Jen’s friends are not a weird fucked lot rather than / without calling the writer a Hardcore Anti-Jen Friender?
As for the reason why I said Curiousity had a mild case of anti Christian bias which you picked upon as implying my own bias, (and this will probably come off as arrogant) it was because from his/her general writing style it seemed to me that he/she was using terms like “weird fucked lot” more as … how do I put this … an expression … something that is cool to say … alright I am not explaining this very well … have you ever read essays written by people for whom english is a second or third language that they are not very comfortable with - the ones I have encountered have usually put things in more forceful words than the author actually meant - made more generalisations than they realised. And Curiousity’s writing style made me think of someone fairly young for whom English is not a first language. I may be entirely wrong of course. On the other hand, it seems to me that you are fluent enough in English to be able to control the nuance and flow of your words such that it more accurately reflects what you meant to say.
I apologize for having (inadvertently) offended you and hope this clears things up.
January 22nd, 2006 at 4:59 pm
Jen - I wasn’t offended. I was just pointing out your own bias in the matter (and it does exist whether you can see it or not).
‘wouldn’t it be a lot better to explain politely why Jen’s friends are not a weird fucked lot rather than / without calling the writer a Hardcore Anti-Jen Friender?’
As the ‘weird fucked lot’ is emotive name calling, it’s impossible to argue against it. It doesn’t actually have any substance OTHER than as an insult and name calling.
As I explained above, I was just using the term ‘hardcore Anti-Christian’ as Curiosity had originally used the term. I was throwing it back at them so they could see that they were being the ‘hardcore’ type of person they claimed they so loathed. It’s actually a logical type of arguement and used quite often (it even has a latin name, but I can’t remember what it’s called at this time).
That was my third post regarding what Curiosity had said. If you read the other ones, you’ll see I argued against some of the issues.
However, on the third post I went through what was said line by line.
The line:
“are a weird fucked lot”
Is emotive and without foundation, as such, it is a hardcore and anti-Christian stand. So, telling me off for using a term which fitted is incorrect. As previously stated, it was also used to show Curiosity that they were being the type of person they so loathed.
As someone who speaks more than one language, I don’t think I’ve ever encountered anyone who would use such a harsh term as ‘Weird Fucked Lot’ only because they thought it was cool.
That term is meant to offend & to ridicule. It’s blatant name calling of the worst kind, as it is baseless.
Thus the line:
the more I read it, the more I realise I’m up against a Hardcore Anti-Christian
As there is no other interpretation for the ‘weird fucked up’ line other than as an insult.
[And I had every right to take it personally].
I’ve had a few discussions with Curiosity on line, and Curiosity’s English is quite okay.
Curiosity has since admitted it didn’t come out as intended, and I accept that. We all have foot in mouth disease at times, BUT, as it was written, it was blatantly anti-Christian. I can only argue against what I am reading, and not what was intended by the writer.
‘…making PERSONAL attacks when arguing an issue was a bad … strategy? … of arguing.’
As I said, you’re showing your own bias, as Curiosity was name calling, and I just through back one of the terms used, whcih actually fitted.
As for not making it personal, Curiosity had already made it personal. Once again your own bias is showing.
After all, you singling me out was also personal.
As for Curiosity’s writing style, from what was explained to me, was it was written in a hurry, and as such not much thought was put into it. Curiosity’s explanation of what was meant to be said was equally as personally offensive to all Christians and as such myself. It still came down to Curiosity calling all Christians a ‘Weird Fucked Lot’.
On further discussion however, it was admitted that the term was too broad and should have been restricted to those whom Curiosity knew.
Like I said though, I wasn’t offended by you, (I was offended by Curiosity though, but we’ve sorted that out).
So, whether you can see your bias or not probably doesn’t really matter. It’s water under the bridge as far as I am concerned.
So, let’s have peace between us (I doubt any one else is reading this far back anyway).