What might they be thinking?
Thursday, February 9th, 2006 @ 10:18 am | General
Moses: I told my people that as the chosen people of God, I will lead them out of Egypt to the promised land, but they embraced violence and crucified Christ instead.
Jesus: I told my people that my message is love, that they must each love their neighbours, but my pastors are casting homosexuals out of my church instead.
Mohammad: I told my people to to be patient that their perseverence will be rewarded, but they burn embassies and kill themselves in my name instead.
Lord Buddha: I told my people not to kill the living and to be mindful of karma, but they keep releasing fish and turtles into overpopulated mining pools, chanting my sutras instead.
Have we, somewhere along the way, missed the point?
February 9th, 2006 at 10:35 am
They are NOT thinking. That’s the problem.
February 9th, 2006 at 10:57 am
Strongly agree with FH2o, lots of people practices “Monkey Listens Monkey Do Then More Monkey Sees More Monkey Do”, especially when it comes to religion!!
February 9th, 2006 at 11:07 am
101% YES, the human race have missed the point completely.
February 9th, 2006 at 11:13 am
We like dividing ourselfs, thinking we are better then others. Racism and religious extremi-sm. Sadly it is true in our society. Which god is better, and which color is better.
February 9th, 2006 at 11:15 am
Not entirely. There are some of us, who does not follow any of them, and yet didn’t cause any trouble either.
Fanatics have too much time.
February 9th, 2006 at 11:27 am
I’d totally agree with this “Monkey Listens Monkey Do Then More Monkey Sees More Monkey Do”…
It’s cultural.
It’s the environment a person has been brought up or stays or lives in.
It’s education (in any form).
I’ve always believed that instinctively, each human is capable of differentiating the good and bad. But you’d be amazed at what humans can come up with at times…
Cheers!
February 9th, 2006 at 11:34 am
spiller: fundamentalists give me the creeps, even atheistic fundamentalists.
February 9th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
Lord Shiva: Dudes. Chill. We did gave them free will, after all. You have to take the good with the awful. Now let’s stop moping and hantam some chapati’s, ok? My consort Parvati makes a mean chicken masala - for you Buddha, we got some happening roasted cauliflower and brinjal curry…
February 9th, 2006 at 12:36 pm
Now this is a post…. Hahaha…. Totally agree that we have lost the way…. Thats why screw religion and look at the bigger picture…. Judge a person by what they do and how they are…. Rather than what religion, creed or colour…..
After all, what is religion but words of man atributted to God?
February 9th, 2006 at 12:54 pm
I think religion is distorted by those fanatical preachers that spread word that followers of other religions are fanatics, other religions are inferior to theirs and so on so forth. Why can’t they accept others?
“If you denounce others for worshipping false gods, your god is probably faulty for creating such an intolerant creature” (Yee Wei, 2005)
February 9th, 2006 at 1:06 pm
Yee Hou: unfortunately I have to disapprove of that ‘wonderful’ quote from your friend/brother. God is divine, religion is manmade.
I do not tolerate the condemning of another’s God by accusation or otherwise. That is a crude sentence and is unworthy of requoting. But i can’t stop you, so I’ll have to state my stand.
February 9th, 2006 at 2:06 pm
to understand fanaticism, we just have to look deeply into ourselves.
how we have sometimes defended our own views and positions to death, at the expense of relationship and logic?
February 9th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
Yes, among many other things, we have totally missed the point…
2 wrongs don’t make right our actions, whether it was done in the name of religion or otherwise.
February 9th, 2006 at 3:26 pm
I don’t think that those misguided people are not thinking.
In my opinion, they think too much. So much that they can bend and twist what god intended to say to their benefits.
February 9th, 2006 at 3:51 pm
Other Kenny - well, the ones at the top bend and twist things … the general MOB of people are the unthinking ones. After all, the mob are doing what they’re told to do to be a good ‘insert religion here’.
Too many idiots at the top of a lot of religions use and abuse people for their own ideologies. Don’t know if it is from thinking too much, but it is from deliberately putting their own slant on things.
How does someone think too much?
But, you are right that it is the bending and twisting of scripture which creates problems.
February 9th, 2006 at 4:13 pm
Evil is 50% nurture and 50% genetic.
February 9th, 2006 at 4:59 pm
Are we there yet? No. We tend to think inside the closet.
February 10th, 2006 at 1:48 am
Yes true MS, now that you’ve explained it in that way. I do agree. But then I still think people who are intolerant of others are pretty much useless. Lame word used as I can’t think of any polite alternatives
February 10th, 2006 at 1:56 am
I have been hypocritical, I did not think of the other meaning of that. I was only thinking of the followers, and not of God
February 10th, 2006 at 8:17 am
that’s all right yee hou, it’s just that while we are all too ready to ostracize those who are unaccepting of other people’s faiths, we also have to be careful not to commit that same mistake of intolerance.
Otherwise we’ll just be pots calling kettles black.
February 10th, 2006 at 9:44 am
Hi Minishorts,
I am agnostic so I don’t agree or disagree with you on the divinity/ existence of God.
I have a coupla comments on your post though. The problem with Christians, at least to me, is not so much about casting out homosexuals. This phenomenon is not widespread and prevalent sufficiently to make such a generalization. Rather the problem with Christians is their blatant hypocrisy.
That hypocrisy is manisfested twofold; Firstly, Christians preached to me about Jesus’ love, but when it is evident that I still do not believe in the Christian God, they threaten me with everlasting hellfire. In other words, they tell me that God loves me infinitely, but if I don’t love Him back, He will cast me into hell. The second manifestation of that hypocrisy is Christians’ holier-than-thou attitude and especially their rabid compulsion to spread their faith. I recently have the misfortune of having a Christian as our new department head. On her first day of work she asked me about my religion. Subsequently, she will seize every and all opportunity to spread her faith in office, even to the extent of leading the department in prayer during company sponsored department lunches! By the way, I work in a profit-oriented, secular company. There are people of different religions working in my department.
I also feel that you may have been a tad unfair about the Buddhists bit. By and large, I think Buddhists are doing a great job heeding the teachings of Lord Buddha. They reacted with stoic dignity and remained peaceful whenever they are encroached. (Eg. When the Buddhist Tibetian government was exiled by the Chinese, when the Bamiyan Buddhas were blasted off by the Taliban government, and when Christians humiliate Buddhists by calling them idol-worshippers, and scrunching their faces in disgust at the sight and smell of incense… etc. etc. etc.)
Of course, there is a tiny bunch of Buddhists who take the releasing turtles bit merely as a ritual, but then this is again not prevalent enough to make a generalization.
All religions have two common denominators:
1. A message of love, compassion and moral sublimity.
2. An assertion of the sovereignty of the diety/ god championed in their religion (This is especially the case for monotheistic faiths)
If we humans only learn to emphasize on point 1, instead of fighting incessantly over point two. Our world would have been heaven on earth.
Cheers!
February 10th, 2006 at 9:44 am
i told my ppeople to spread love in this month of love and to visit my blog always..
erm.. >_
February 10th, 2006 at 10:09 am
beyond religion: First i have to thank you for your comments, i understand perhaps that you’ve meant many-a-christian who’ve been pretty ruthless in their evangelizing missions… but then again you have to understand that many Christians take it seriously that we have to ‘bear fruit’ for the Lord. But that is besides the points.
I’m sure you’d realized by now that overzealous fundamentalists are but a fistful, but the spirit of this fistfuls can be so strong, often those of us who are advocates of personal belief and spiritual practice feel the lashbacks and yes, these can hurt. I’ve spoken of this SEVERAL times in my blog, if you’ve followed me closely.
I’ve never been fond of fundamentalists. Be it a huge bunch of missionary Christians, nations of angry Muslims, or fistfuls of ritualistic Buddhists. But I too do not condone the way you have classified CHristians as a whole… we could very well classify some atheists in chunks and talk about how offensive they’ve been when they’re penning websites dedicated to ridiculing the bible… FUNDAMENTALISM is dangerous, whether in tens, thousands, millions or the uncountable. It takes only a small seed to sprout a huge tree… and I’m sure you’re intelligent enough to comprehend this analogy.
February 10th, 2006 at 11:31 am
Hi Minishorts,
I am sorry if I have inadvertently offended your religion in anyway.
I am not a close follower of your blog so I may not have been fully aware of your stance towards Fundamentalism.
I may also perhaps be unfair in my generalization of Christians. However, I am making that generalization in the same spirit and in the same context as your generalization about Islamic terrorists (representing Muslims) and homophobic Christians (representing Christians). Certainly, these two groups of people represent only a tiny minority of their respective religions. Their behaviours should not be extended to represent that of Muslims and Christians at large, just as overzealous Christian fundamentalist should not represent the entire Christian population.
Be that as it may, the phenomenon of fierce Christian evangelists may be a lot greater in extent than you realize. You are a Christian (or so I gather, but please correct me if I am wrong), so you are not a target of constant ridicule by the Christian fundamentalists. On the other hand, I am not a Christian, and I experience first hand and bear the full brunt of the treatment accorded to me by quite a few of those Christians. The example that I cited about by Christian HOD leading prayers in company lunches might not affect you as strongly as it did me. You may just shrug the incident off as someone being insensitive, but to me, this incident can even be taken to peer/ boss pressure, of abuse of power, even duress.
I am not sure if you know this, but recently some Christians in Singapore have been making headlines for the wrong reason. The public is airing concerns that some Christians are abusing their institutional powers to evangelize. Eg. Doctors, Teachers, college professors etc are using their advantage and influence they wield over others due to their positions to preach Christianity. One such lecturer has to be ‘counseled’ by the college after he is found to engage in evangelism at work.
You are also too young to know this, but there was a very vocal and aggressive Christian campaign in Singapore in the late 1970s not only to promulgate Christianity, but also to denigrate the traditional Chinese religions such as Taoism and Buddhism. When I was studying in a missionary school, our pastor would often tell us stories of a Buddhist/ Taoist converting to Christianity after realizing that the statutes they worship are nothing but a piece of wooden block. That pastor never fails to gleefully narrate the way these new Christians smashed up the Buddhist statutes after being saved.
Even while I was in the armed forces, a fellow soldier freely distributed evangelical materials graphically depicting Buddhists/ Taoists burning in hell (a la Jack Chick strips), and now in the work place, I have a Christian HOD forcing down her lunch prayer rituals on me. A Hindu colleague of mine even has to put up with a Christian client in a crowded restaurant, who after repeated failures to convert him, raised his voices at my colleage and said “Don’t you know you are going to hell for not accepting Jesus and God as your lord and saviour?” Again you are a Christian so you might not fully appreciate how prevalent (and offensive) these kind of behaviours can be.
Please do not construe this post as my criticism of Christianity. I am not saying that Christianity is a false religion, and we both agree that we don’t like fundamentalists. I am only disagreeing with you on the prevalence of those fundamental Christians. Nevertheless, when you said:
” …but then again you have to understand that many Christians take it seriously that we have to ‘bear fruit’ for the Lord. But that is besides the points.”
I have to wonder; Might this be the point, at least for the fundamental Christians, after all?
Cheers
February 10th, 2006 at 11:34 am
Minishorts, I am sorry. I realized that I have just hijacked your blog and make this a private discussion between the two of us. I won’t post here again on this matter. If I post a reply to you at all, I will do so via email (if I can find your email address here)
February 10th, 2006 at 11:48 am
I beg your pardon, Beyond Religion, but maybe you’d be obliged to see how I regard Fundamentalists in these posts.
http://www.minishorts.net/2006/01/11/define-this/
http://www.minishorts.net/2005/10/27/a-letter/
http://www.minishorts.net/2005/08/04/not-everything-is-comparatively-speaking/
http://www.minishorts.net/2005/05/20/disclaiming-my-disgust/
http://www.minishorts.net/2005/05/19/at-the-end-of-the-day/
http://www.minishorts.net/2005/05/18/more-and-then-more/
http://www.minishorts.net/2005/05/17/judge-me-to-hell/
http://www.minishorts.net/2005/05/13/evangelists-not-allowed/
What I am trying to say, is while in this post I’m generalising idiocy of Fundamentalists, I generalise the idiotic demonstrations of Fundamentalists in religions that I can understand… because it is not right to criticize merely ONE faith-pursuer, and allowing for the fanaticity of the others…
What YOU are doing, in return, is criticising Christians as a whole (not merely Fundamentalists, mind you), and that, I DO NOT CONDONE, and WILL NOT CHOOSE to accept. I do not even have to be Christian to not want to say,’Fine you are right.’
Because what you are doing is wrong, isn’t any more different from how the masses in the West (generalizing here again), is doing: lumping all Muslims into a huge sack and hitting it with a baton, and calling them terrorists.
Perhaps that’s why the Fundamentalists you’ve met are so eager to draw you into their kind. I guess the more you fend them off, the more they’ll lash back.
BTW, I’m rediscovering Christianity, but my mother’s staunch Taoist, and I’ve been living with her all my life and so I understand and practise some of the rites because I love and honour my mother. My Dad’s a Charismatic Christian, hence, I’ve been going to church all my life too. I’ve had my share of mind-boggling evangelists, so don’t you start on what you’ve seen and etc.
AGE ISN’T AN INDICATIVE OF MATURITY, so far demonstrated by you.
February 10th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
What’s the point of getting ‘the point” in the first place?
February 10th, 2006 at 2:21 pm
This discussion is intelligent at least. No senseless bickering. I learnt something today. Thanks MS
February 10th, 2006 at 6:04 pm
I believe many things are being abused in the name of religion. They really have forgotten what religion is all about. Some people are just over zealous of their religious teaching that they forgotten what is moderation and tolerance. Very sad. I think the religions’ founder will be very disappointed of what’s happening these days. Instead of peace, there’s no more violence all because of religion.
February 10th, 2006 at 6:07 pm
oohhh… typo.. last sentence should be read,
“Instead of peace, there is more violence all because of religion.”
February 10th, 2006 at 6:20 pm
I’ve stuck a reply to Beyond Religion on my site for anyone who has four days (Yeah, it’s LONG … long …. looooooooooong … longer than the first post and all the comments here combined … yea, War and Peace type long!)
‘Because what you are doing is wrong, isn’t any more different from how the masses in the West (generalizing here again), is doing: lumping all Muslims into a huge sack and hitting it with a baton, and calling them terrorists.’
The Masses in the West are NOT lumping all Muslims together into a huge sack. I think your media has been making mountains out of molehills if that’s what you’ve been lead to believe.
The majority of the West has been very accomodating to Muslims. For example, the Bali Bombers were targettign Australians, yet we donated over one BILLION dollars and sent our Army and Navy to help Indonesia after the Tsunami. If we thought all Muslims were terrorists we certainly would not have done that.
Plus the Cronulla riots (which is the only report of violence in Australia), was a backlash against Muslim gangs who used to raom Cronulla beach threaten to rape and kill people for not being Muslim that the police refused to do anything about.
[I know as I used to live at Cronulla, and I have friends threatened. It dates back to BEFORE 1982, as we discussed it in General Studies class in High School].
That entire riot would have be avoided if the local police had of taken peoples complaints seriously rather than telling them to go home. [Which is what happened to my friends when they reported incedents to the police].
I don’t know a single Aussie who thinks all Muslims are terrorists … in fact it’s quite the opposite.
February 10th, 2006 at 11:52 pm
uh… its CRUCIFIED, not crucifiXed.
just thought i’d point that out.
February 11th, 2006 at 12:25 am
Sashi,
Buddha: Don’t specially made anything thinking I can’t have meat but of course I appreciate the respect of the respect of life. Chicken or cauliflower, they are all just ‘binary’ to me…
I have to thank some of my fellow Christians housemates who had ask me leading questions about my religion Buddhism. I could’t answer non of them then but I do now.
February 11th, 2006 at 10:00 pm
Hi I am a young muslim. I have been muslim all my life, but I respect other religions such as christianity. I love peace and hate war. I am also not a terrorist and I don’t know how to make a bomb.
I think Minishorts has a great website. I do wish I could try bah kut teh once in a while but alas that is not to be. I wish I could share that bottle of Hogarden with Angelfire, but alas, that is not to be. (sigh)
February 11th, 2006 at 10:22 pm
Haha I got you! Next time it’s da chinese!