Be serious, it’s not funny at all.
This morning I told Eric to cancel any after-lunch appointments in the areas near Jalan Riong. I think it's ridiculous. I mean, come on, everyone has been insulted ever so often, all right? And especially when it comes to religion, come come, Muslims aren't the ONLY prime target all the time, except maybe for now, it does seem that Muslims are the prime target because their predicaments are about the only ones that seem to be highlighted in the dailies worldwide every day.
The last I heard in Church, the pastor was referring to people who worship idols of stone as Satan-inflicted know-nothings who require salvation. While I've come to the point where I agree that if you do comply by the bible, this line probably works and makes reality real for more fundamental X-tians, I'll bet the average Buddhist-Taoist person who wears an amulet of the Goddess Kuanyin around his/her neck will find that pastor's message insulting.
This is almost as ridiculous as the possible scenario of a group of X-tians deciding to demonstrate (peacefully, of course, whoever said anything's going to be violent?) outside The Snake Temple in Penang, or maybe, a group of peace-loving idol-worshippers (let's just group Buddhists, Hindus and Taoists together, shall we?) gathering outside the local Assembly of God to protest against the insulting sermons.
At this rate, EVERYTHING will be insulting. Even this post. Oh dear, what have I done? I'm sorry, really. And maybe, just to be safe, I think I better put a password on this post come the end of today.
The open secret of course is this: no one can insult you unless you allow them to. And nothing, really, is more lamentable than feeling affected and insecure over something that could have been shrugged off as petty.
Was it really an insult? Oh come on. You've just proven the accursed comic strip completely right, grown a mountain out of a molehill, and that, I'm sure, is not the intended outcome of these protests, right?
February 24th, 2006 at 10:08 am
It has become such an issue that people have seriously lost sight of the real matter at hand and the inability to laugh at themselves, learn and move on.
February 24th, 2006 at 10:22 am
Your pastor, of course, is smart enough to not air his prejudice outside of his flock.
Muslims here haven’t caught on to that yet.
February 24th, 2006 at 10:51 am
only jln riong? avoid bangsar altogether ho ho ho
February 24th, 2006 at 11:27 am
a very timely and insightful post. but the only way to know something deeply, really know it is to be able to look at it, think deep thoughts about it…and laugh at it too. because life does involve laughter. and laughter shows honesty, a courage to look things in the face.
i do like your writing…and i will be posting a link to your site on my own blog.
February 24th, 2006 at 12:19 pm
Like would the people outside of church be able to listen to such ‘degrading’ sermons? Since it wasn’t intended nor directed to them anyways?? And besides, it was preached inside a church and not ‘aired’ out into the public on huge HUGE loudspeakers.
I bet they talk bad about others (degrade) behind their backs also…
What’s the big deal?
Can’t take a bit of heat?
But of course, I wouldn’t condone any form of protest, be it violent nor peaceful… I think these people would be better off trying to care for their friends, and show some real love to those who they hold dear.
What will you gain if you won the protest??
February 24th, 2006 at 12:39 pm
well JC and tariq, neither does every one buy the News Straits Times, and neither does everyone surf to HizmetBooks.
Not everyone on earth knows that there’s a country called Malaysia, either.
February 24th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
No one’s laughing anymore. Everyone’s so uptight about every darn thing. Bah. Maybe those Feng Shui masters out there are right..the Fire Dog year is indeed a very quarrelsome one.
February 24th, 2006 at 2:01 pm
Were u partly inspired by Dabido’s comments ?
February 24th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
totally true that insult will only become one when you allow it to be one..
I mean if you know and feel secure about what you are, you won’t find those words some people threw at you as insult, it’d be just clueless mutters.. or it would be like those dogs barking at trees…
February 24th, 2006 at 9:58 pm
I totally agree that insult will be become one if you allowe it to be one.
As a average buddhist myself, I know that I am no idol worshipper. That statue in my house is really just a representation, no different than the VIPs pictures hanging on the wall in some offices. The pastor was ok with what he said really. He respect the idol worshipper by not talking in public but of course he doesn’t understand them (buddhist, hindu, toaist) religiously.
My grandma always say she prefer to worship an idol with faces and all, rather than worshipping a wooden cross (well she doesn’t know there are some made metal and cement). My grandma was ok with what she said really. She respect the wooden cross worshipper by not saying this to her over-zealous christian (marketing dept) friends but of course she doesn’t understand them (JW, catholic, protestant, unification etc…) religiously.
February 24th, 2006 at 10:51 pm
the thing is, not many people understand other religions.
most people thinking that their religion is of course, the best and the usual i’m-so-right-and-you’re-wrong thing.
and christians dont worship a cross.
its just the only way to remind us of Jesus.
i think..
besides, who published those muslim caricatures / comics ?
Germany, isn’t it?
sometimes u wonder why people even bother to do stuff like that.
what’s the point, exactly?…
February 24th, 2006 at 11:16 pm
Exactly hairschrunchie. The “respecting the religion of others” doesn’t go beyond this.
It’s like “I respect the buddhists and they can worship any idol they want” kind of respecting.
and buddhists/christians dont worship a idol/cross.
its just the only way to remind us of Buddha/Jesus.
My grandma dunno that. Some pastors dunno that too.
i think..
February 25th, 2006 at 1:04 am
come see me bang ppl’s car .. lol
February 25th, 2006 at 2:00 am
I think that people who believe that their religion is the best(who doesn’t?) should try to spread their messages in a more acceptable manner. After all, stepping on other’s religions and labelling them as sinners would only lead to outrage, and portray a lack of tolerance.
Though I’m not a Christian, I read The Bible, not cover to cover, but I just skip here and there. While I have yet to come across any part that says that Christians should spread their religion, I have heard many times that it is the Christian’s ways to help others. OK, I agree, you wish to help me.
But do you have to step on me?
Anything wrong spoken, please correct me.
February 25th, 2006 at 7:46 am
Tsk..Tsk…One of the writers out there had it right…Hindus (and Buddhists) don’t worship idols, its a mere representation of the supreme being. One should really read more about another religion than just taking pot shots(with reference to certain religious figures). But your message that you’re trying to convey is crystal clear MS. But any religious teacher who say bad things about another religion be it in or outside their flock is not truly a religious person. Does a religious person need to vilify another person’s religion in order to propagate his/her’s religion ? Because the Prophet, Jesus, Krishna did not have to do that. Unfortunately its we humans who do that. So as the saying goes, what goes around comes around.
But respect begets respect…so this whole fiasco with the caricature should stop. Not everthing from the West is good. Let us keep that in mind. Talking about religion is always a messy affair. Anyway…let’s hope for World Peace(It makes me sound like a contestant in Miss Universe…hell let’s make that Mr. Universe )
February 25th, 2006 at 4:17 pm
lol. Good one. World peace is so needed.
but why is everybody so hard up just cos a particular newspaper published cartoons?
i mean, YES. we should respect other religions.
but it was probably a harmless caricature.
and, like there’s all this big hoo-haa. but what abt underneath the surface?
Muslims argue of free speech but not of provocation.
everybody knows how they hate Jews.
yet it is so wrong to insult the Prophet (which undoubtly, is.) but not wrong to hate Jews? isn’t it the same sort of disrespect?
isn’t every religion insulted in one way or another?
of course, not every one got insulted by rude caricatures.
but i’m sure if there was a publication of caricatures of the Lord Jesus,
The government of our beloved nation wouldn’t care as much.
okay, sorry if i insulted or offended anybody or whatever.
i’m merely a young child (as adults would say. but im not! im a teenager with a big wandering mind. rawr. ahaha!)
February 25th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
You know what’s the tricky part? Everybody believes that only their religion is the absolute correct religion, and 99.99999% are unwilling to consider that perhaps another religion could be just as valid/more valid than theirs.
And from there stems the intolerence towards other people’s religions and the defensive positions taken when it comes about to their religion.
But the interesting thing is that religions teach tolerence and respect. However, the religions also teach absolute belief in their religion. How do you tolerate and respect another religion if your religion states that no other religion is right?
If you’re tolerating and being respectful of another religion you’re saying “Yes, I accept that your beliefs are different than mine and you have a right to belief in them, and YES YOUR RELIGION HAS EVERY RIGHT TO BE AS VALID AS MINE.” Because the moment you say “Although I tolerate and respect your religion, it is NOT AS VALID/TRUE AS MINE IS.” you are no longer respecting the other person’s religion.
I wonder whether religions intentionally build this mechanism into themselves?
Haha. Well, that’s for religion.
February 26th, 2006 at 8:31 pm
Curiosity - ‘How do you tolerate and respect another religion if your religion states that no other religion is right?’
Simple, everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how right or wrong it is. This doesn’t mean it is off limits to discussion though, it just means that you don’t have the right to shove your religion down other peoples throats.
‘If you’re tolerating and being respectful of another religion you’re saying “Yes, I accept that your beliefs are different than mine and you have a right to belief in them, and YES YOUR RELIGION HAS EVERY RIGHT TO BE AS VALID AS MINE.”’
Yes and no. Yes, they are allowed to beleive in their beliefs even if they are different. No, being tolerant does not mean you accept that another persons religion is as valid as your own, it just means you will allow the other person to follow their own.
The word Tolerance means to ‘Tolerate’, tolerating something does not mean accepting it is valid.
For instance, you might meet someone who believes the earth is flat (as per someone from the Flat Earth Society), you can accept that they have a right to believe the earth is flat, but still find their belief unacceptable.
‘verybody believes that only their religion is the absolute correct religion,’
If they didn’t then they wouldn’t believe in their religion, they’d believe in another one (and I include Athiesm and Agnosticism in the term religion).
Even agnostics and athiests can be very militant in their attacks on other religions.
Consider the Flat Earth person again - would you consider your belief in a round earth is absolutely correct? I think so.
‘99.99999% are unwilling to consider that perhaps another religion could be just as valid/more valid than theirs.’
Are they? It’s difficult to convince many people of anything, and it is impossible to disprove the existance of any diety (as you can’t prove a negative). This doesn’t mean that the people are unwilling to consider that their religion might be wrong, but it does mean that it’s near impossible to convince them that they have the wrong religion. As such, if you can offer no reason for them to change, how do you expect them to even consider it?
If you have some evidence which proves a religion wrong, I’m sure you could convince a lot of people to change. BUT, like I said, you can’t disprove the existane of any diety, so it is near impossible to give them a reason.
Let’s go back to the Flat Earth person example once again. Do you believe that their belief might be more valid than your own?
No, not without some sort of proof. Guess what, all the scientific proof points in the opposite direction, it all proves the Earth is a sphere in space.
If they could offer proof that the earth is not a sphere, but in fact flat, you might consider it, but as it stands, there s absolutely no reason for you to consider changing to their point of view.
‘And from there stems the intolerence towards other people’s religions…’
I think you might find the intolerance has nothing to do with this. A lot of religions TEACH that other religions are not to be tolerated, and that is where the intolerance comes from.
In other cases people interpret their religious writings/teachings not to tolerate other religions.
You will find that in the majority of the world, the majority of religious people do actually live side by side without intolerance.
‘and the defensive positions taken when it comes about to their religion.’
Everyone has a right to defend their religion. Most defenses occur because someone with a limited understanding of their religion makes intolerant remarks.
You have a right to defend yours as much as I have to defend mine. That’s also a part of religious tolerance, to accept that people have a right to defence.
‘I wonder whether religions intentionally build this mechanism into themselves?’
Not all religions have this built in. Some religions really don’t care if you don’t beleive in what they believe. As such it isn’t built in. I don’t think a follow of Thor would care if you attacked their religion, but if they did and they took offence at it, they still have a right to defend their belief.
Defending beliefs isn’t jsut for religions.
Getting back to our ‘Flat Earth Person’ example, if you met them, would you try to convince them of the error of their ways?
What if they try to convince you that you’re mistaken? Would you defend your belief in a spherical earth?
Nice to hear from you again Curiosity.
SaddNesZ.jc - What will you gain if you won the protest??’
Free Snake burgers for a week.
S-Kay - ‘the Fire Dog year is indeed a very quarrelsome one.’
If I disagree I’m proved wrong … right?
Dreamer - ‘Were u partly inspired by Dabido’s comments ?’
Ah .. er … which comment, I make so many! Waaah!
Beefstew - Have to agree with you.
‘My grandma always say she prefer to worship an idol with faces and all, rather than worshipping a wooden cross’
Not all Christian churches even allow crosses. Several of the ones I went to in Sydney didn’t have crosses at all. Some Christian churches even consider the cross a form of idolatry.
I’ve met supposed experts of Comparitive Religious studies who still get things wrong. I heard a debate once between a Muslim and a Christian, and the Christian obviously had no idea about Islam (but he didn’t claim to, and he accidentally called Muhummad the Islamic God … OUCH!), and the Muslim guy, who was supposedly a lecturer in Comparitive Religions and Christianity really didn’t have a clue about Christianity. Even after the Christian pulled him up on some mistaken beliefs the guy continued claiming it was what Christians believed. It was quite insulting in a way.
Yee How - ‘Christians should spread their religion, I have heard many times that it is the Christian’s ways to help others. OK, I agree, you wish to help me.
But do you have to step on me?’
Yes, it’s in there, Christians have been told to go forth and make desciples of all the world. The reason they believe it helps people is because converting people means the converted will go to heaven. (to allow a person to continue in their unconverted state means they will goto hell).
No, they don’t have to step on you. You’ll find the reason they are so militant (and step on you), is because either 1. they care (and as such want you to get to heaven), or 2. they come from a church where it is important for them to convert people (else they feel the fires of hell will consume them for ignoring Jesus command to go forth and make disciples of all the earth.)
So, please forgive those who do tread on your head, but please understand, they are most likely doing it as they want to see you in heaven.
‘Hairscrunchie - The reason the caricatures were so insulting is because one of the cartoons claimed Muhammad was a terrorist, and secondly, because it is blasphemous to make a picture of any kind of the Prophet.
As I pointed out on my blog, the cartoons were as insulting to Islam as the ‘Piss Christ’ photo was to Christianity.
I don’t blame Muslims for being upset of the cartoons, but they don’t need to kill people or riot over it. Peaceful protests would have been better. The riots made them look intolerant to ‘Freedom of speech’, which was what the cartoons were supposedly trying to prove. It was like they walked into a trap set for them.
Anyway, most of the countries that published the cartoons also allowed the ‘Piss Christ’ photo to be displayed years earlier, so they were being true to their freedom of speech beliefs, where as in Australia, they allowed the ‘Piss Christ’ photo to be displayed, but chose not to display the cartoons. I personally think both should have ben stopped, as both were created in order to insult and be intolerant.
Minishorts - Sorry for abducting your comments section.
February 27th, 2006 at 8:19 am
dabido: no problems there… hehe it’s always enlightening to see your views on religion. and yes, yee wei, it does say in the bible that we have to go forth and make disciples.
February 27th, 2006 at 2:28 pm
Minishorts - Terima Kasih. It was quite a long response … I hope someone read it. lol
February 27th, 2006 at 3:20 pm
um. i read it:D hehe. but isnt all the rioting affecting the muslims ?? i mean, yeah they can riot and act angry.
but what is the entire point of it all?
i mean, action was taken and punishments were dealt out..
and they’re only affecting themselves. .___.
its all so pointless, the rioting!
February 27th, 2006 at 4:20 pm
Hairscrunchie - No the riots took place in Muslim countries, but they trashed the Danish Embassy, and they killed and beat up some Europeans. [I don't know if they were even Danish]. So it has a bigger effect than just on Muslims.