Knowing our places.
I cannot describe how importantly I view the virtues of humility, especially when you're just fresh out of grad school with a smashing honours degree (first class honours, anyone?) as that cherry on top of your cake.
The scary thing about graduating with first class honours from any university, is the fact that showers of praise are heaped upon you when you get out. You have proud parents and envious friends patting your backs and singing praises about your bright future–suddenly everyone around you can predict your future. And that's the scary part.
The problem is you haven't even got yourself a job yet. That seal of recognition on your certificate just tells your potential employer that you're a potential candidate to fill an empty position–it just tells him that you're good at getting great grades. Nothing on that piece on paper says that you're going to be a good worker.
In comes the CV, or resume. 'I've had work experience before, I spent three semester breaks working as a trainee in different companies, and I got very good reviews.'
Chances are it was a prerequisite for you to complete at least one internship in order for you to get that degree. And even if a traineeship isn't a requirement, you're not the only graduate who worked at a company for a minimal fee during the holidays.
…
You see, sometimes the danger of graduating with glamourous results and fantastic reviews from supervisors and lecturers can get threatening. It becomes easy for students like this to fall into the trap of being conceited–they think they own the world, and that the globe is at their feet, ready for them to march in and conquer. Such idealistic thoughts and dreams are fine, of course, but when you climb too high too soon, you lose your balance easily, and you fall easily. I've friends who've envy-worthy graduation slips, and past-promises of a bright future, but have recently got entangled in wallows of self-pity. They keep pointing out their lesser-peers, people who did not do quite as well as they did in university, but are spearheading teams at their own companies, and they do such pointing with venemous fingers of accusation.
Sometimes in private spaces we talk about work and share ideas on how to survive in the rat race. But the weight of six consecutive 4-flats pulls them down so strongly, it's hard for them to stand up and join in the race. They cannot understand that to win a typical race, you have to start from the starting point, not barge in in the middle and sprint to the front. Usually, they think they're atypical, and they want to get the champion's trophy even before trying.
I told a fresh graduate just a few weeks back, someone who had just came out of a UK varsity and has been searching for a job for three months (and still searching), that he needed to cast away his degree and focus on performing well in the interview.
'But won't the interviewer and the potential employers even consider my degree and the years I spent overseas? I didn't study so long and so hard just to be rejected, you know?'
'Well, of course he would consider that. The moment you get the invitation to be a candidate, he's considered all your academic qualifications and past work experience. But once you step into that interview hall, you just have to put your university achievements behind you and focus on the interview. You don't want to convince your future employer that you're great because your academic results prove so. You want to convince him that you're the person for the job because of who you are, and what you can provide for him.'
…
Sometimes it's hard to trust the numbers on a piece of paper, because they do not reveal enough about a person's capability to perform well. That's why almost all interview processes these days includes that aptitude test, and more recently, that English test. You never know what an A1 in the 1119 will translate to in real life. For all we care, you just rote-learned your way to your glittering grades, and it worked for you. But we don't want parrots with glamourous results. We want people who can perform.
People who graduate with straight As have the problem of aiming too high, because they think too highly of themselves. They want to start off with a bang, in huge companies, MNCs and GLCs, in high-ranking positions that will take them across the globe and allow them to leave a trail of colourful ribbons for their younger friends to see and admire. That's why they keep rejecting jobs, 'That company is not good enough for me. That salary is too small for me. That position sounds so dodgy.'
It beats me why can't people like these understand that it's not what they can do for the company right now, it's more about what the company can do for them, the kind of experience that they will take home from that experience in a small company. I was trying to convince yet another girl who had a First Class Honours Degree in Informational Technology to take up a RM1800 position in an SMI.
'You don't understand, Claire. That place is too small. RM1800 is too little. I graduated top of my class, and I have friends who didn't do as well as me earning RM 2000+ already. I need a job that will prove my academic work worth its years,' she insisted.
'Well that small company will provide you the experience to move on to another job, and maybe you'll stay and grow with the company as it gets bigger. No company is set up to fail you know?'
Her response floored me.
'You know, a lot of MDs and CEOs of MNCs started off in MNCs. You know Bill Gates? He started off with Microsoft when he was younger. He's still with Microsoft.'
…
'Yeah I know.'
I thought it was pointless to continue talking to someone with that kind of knowledge about the world. First Class Honours? Sure.
March 29th, 2006 at 9:30 am
OK now i thought Bill Gates STARTED Microsoft?? and when he started microsoft i bet it was only a 2 person company…. much the same goes to Oracle……When those ppl started off, those companies were not MNC.
er…..no offense but the friend doesnt seem to know much about the corporate world leh…..despite graduating tops and all.
March 29th, 2006 at 9:34 am
Fashionasia: I think the current leaders of most MNCs in the world are their founders. We haven’t moved on to the next generation of leaders, just yet. There’s still place for new companies to grow.
March 29th, 2006 at 9:38 am
When Bill Gates started Microsoft, it was a two man show and from the garage in his home then. Anita Roddick didn’t just started up The Body Shop just like that…she made the recipes herself and had to go around asking for a bank loan coz no decent bank would give a woman entrepeneur money.
CEOs make it through the top by starting off small. It is the effort put into the journey that makes them who they are NOT what they got in school OR how rich they were.
All I have to say to these people is this: grades don’t matter in the real world. At the end of the day, what you do with that god-given brain counts. AND it counts BIG-TIME.
March 29th, 2006 at 9:55 am
a piece of paper can only get you so far… experiences can add a great deal of distance..
March 29th, 2006 at 10:07 am
She had the nerve to namedrop a high school dropout while being completely oblivious to that fact.
March 29th, 2006 at 10:13 am
Sorry, university dropout.
March 29th, 2006 at 10:16 am
Is that what top students know nowadays???
This deserves a double OMG!!!
What have their lecturers been telling them??
March 29th, 2006 at 10:18 am
just tell her ” who are you compare to Bill Gates ?? “
March 29th, 2006 at 10:19 am
classic example from our own turf, UNCLE LIM !
March 29th, 2006 at 10:41 am
Haha, this is rich.
…
I’ll get back to my low-paying job now.
You know, because I’m worth it.
March 29th, 2006 at 10:44 am
I once knew a guy whose name would be in the Dean’s Honours List every semester. As a scholar, he was a genius. As a person, the feller was an idiot.
There is a difference between book smarts and street smarts; having one does not mean having the other.
On a more personal note, 1st class honours graduates should bear in mind that there are people with Masters and Doctorate qualifications who don’t really pull a humongous salary. People like their tutors and lecturers.
March 29th, 2006 at 11:01 am
So Chooki, you’d be gracious and unperturbed even if, as a high-school drop out, my salary totally kicked your masters-educated ass two ways to the moon?
You ego wouldn’t be able to handle that.
March 29th, 2006 at 12:06 pm
Did she mean Bill Gates ’started off’ as in started the company or joined it =.=?
If it’s the latter, that’s a damn serious wtf moment.
I always thought a degree was just an excuse to get through the doorway for interviews. After that it’s about convincing the interviewer that you’re the ideal candidate. Then it’s all about working your ass off and getting more experience to command larger salaries.
March 29th, 2006 at 12:13 pm
I don’t know. I’ve never yet had an employer ask to look at my degree. They just take my word for it. At the end of the day, its as julianME says, it just gets your foot in the door. Everything from then on is all you say and do.
Once again, welcome to the real world.
March 29th, 2006 at 12:27 pm
Some people apparently were born yesterday. Oh well…she’ll learn…eventually. Too bad we’re not there to watch her learn.
March 29th, 2006 at 12:29 pm
Real world bites…I guess we just have to live with it.
March 29th, 2006 at 1:33 pm
‘You know, a lot of MDs and CEOs of MNCs started off in MNCs. You know Bill Gates? He started off with Microsoft when he was younger. He’s still with Microsoft.’
Now that’s a good one. In fact, one of the best I have heard so far. First class honor? My ass.
A lot of youngsters dream big (and trust me, if you want to dream, dream it as big as you want), like working for Intel as engineers, or Microsoft as programmers, or .. well, you can take a guess. I won’t get into the detail of defining that kind of so-called dreams, but they do not understand the fundamental of how things work. Yeah, from outside, it’s glamorous but the truth is that it is all hardwork and if you fit into the culture, you will do very well and you will make it big there.
The current educational system is not feeding the youngsters more than what they need to do well in real world. All they are teaching is just theoritical shit and it doesn’t help the students to understand what is reality. Upon graduation, only then those so-called graduate students will understand that reality bites. Been there, done that.
But then, it is just my rambling on this issue since many years back.
March 29th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
2nd time trying to comment..
classic example on our local turf, Uncle Lim..
there you go.
March 29th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
Degree means nothing at all, 1st class actually in many peoples eyes is worst than 2:1 unless its for an R&D position.
1st class just means that person is a talented academic, other than that they probably have no social skills and studied rather than having fun meaning their life experience will be low.
I’m always wary when interviewing 1st class students, as workers they can be arrogant and lack practical knowledge, only excel in theory.
A degree proves nothing, only that you are good at studying, degrees are known to give you no useful practical skills.
March 29th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
one thing i learn is that school teaches u the theory but when i comes to the real workings of the real world all those gets thrown out the window.
March 29th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
That’s the Malaysia Boleh!! spirit. Youngsters now days are trained out to ask for high salary with no experience and attitude problems.
March 29th, 2006 at 5:32 pm
Yeah tell me about it. When I interviewed fresh grad, I almost puke blood because they are expecting world-class job and world-class pay. So nowadays I won’t even consider hiring fresh grad. I prefer to take in those that worked for few years so at least the reality butt into their head first
March 29th, 2006 at 7:01 pm
I cannot describe how importantly I view the virtues of humility, especially when you’re just fresh out of grad school with a smashing honours degree (first class honours, anyone?) as that cherry on top of your cake.
March 29th, 2006 at 7:03 pm
Oops accidentally hit the Enter key (really).
Just wanted to say, Minishorts has really nice cherries, even though I’ve never seen them.
March 29th, 2006 at 7:04 pm
People need to stop assuming that the world owes them a living.
March 29th, 2006 at 8:31 pm
With a degree (that they think is the best) like that, they tend to place their expectations too high. I think she should just learn from her friends who already have a job and a paycheck of 2000+. In this current time, she’s lucky that she’s actually being offered a job. A friend of mine, also graduated with the same degree ended up taking up the job, which paid only RM1800 (after a year of choosing and losing)
My sister would probably turn out exactly like her. Too demanding, too kiasu, and her expectations are impossible and she’s just in her Pre-U level. Let’s see if her mentality changes when she’s more mature. I doubt it will though. I just told my mom, so what if you’re superbly smart, with a first-class degree but your mentality and your personality is worse than others without all that.
Sometimes, it’s better to start off in a smaller company. Lesser competition and less pressure so at least you’ll have time to slowly gain your experience before moving to a bigger company.
March 29th, 2006 at 8:52 pm
“Upon graduation, only then those so-called graduate students will understand that reality bites”
So agree with you there and my dad puked blood too when he interviewed freshies. My dad tries not to choose grads with outstanding results as they tend to be harder to train (somehow).
Before I even started my degree, I already started choosing part time jobs from the papers, which would at least help boost my resume in the future. It was freaking tough ok because I knew no big co. would wanna hire a part-timer or was willing to take in a no-knowledge + no-experience Pre-U grad like me. So, I had to start in a small company and I didn’t complain. I worked my best. Performed well. The next time I looked for a job, I aimed for a better company. I got in, I tried to keep up in my performance and well, I’ll be looking for another part-time job soon. Hopefully, when I grad…even though I do not have like a solid 1-3 years experience, maybe…at least my part time work experiences will help me a lil. Almost everyone has a degree, so you really need something that can make you stand out amongst them (apart from a good interpersonal skill and all that jazz) and a bloody great academic result won’t give you a superbly great advantage over others, really. I really do hope my efforts will pay off but of course, my expectations are not that high. The most important thing is to land yourself a job first and then continue planning from there.
March 29th, 2006 at 11:11 pm
hello…sensible as usual.
in the process of finishing up my four-year course… i know that firms will definitely look up to the first class degree you have.
but bottomline is : can you get the job done? because all the dean’s lists in the world won’t be able to save you if you can’t get the work finished on time competently…and if you can’t explain your work or what you do…mouth opening and closing like an expired fish when asked by boss to explain legal opinion.
i m still hoping to do well in my exams…gulp!…but it won’t be the end of the world if i don’t.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:20 am
A friend of mine who runs his own company once said that he employs 1st class graduates for very technical jobs. The reason behind this logic, according to him is that a 1st class graduate tends to be mechanical to a certain degree and will always strive to complete the task at hand to the best of their abilities and not question “Why?” as opposed to someone with a more business oriented mindset. He did say that they are cocky but that one has to know how to handle them, stroking their ego every now and then…..well I am afraid to say that I have to agree with him.
I have worked with an Oxbridge alumnus with a Wharton MBA to top it off and she did not have the need, urgency or more importantly the hunger to excel in what she did. I work as a trader and this is a business where the hungry person gets the lions share. She was more interested in shopping around for a better paying job and used to do it in the office in plain view and earshot of everyone else. Call it confidence? I call it an unwillingness to face up to reality!
March 30th, 2006 at 12:40 am
‘You know, a lot of MDs and CEOs of MNCs started off in MNCs. You know Bill Gates? He started off with Microsoft when he was younger. He’s still with Microsoft.’
WTF???!!!! For god’s sake Bill Gates FOUNDED Microsoft…
March 30th, 2006 at 3:30 am
i dread next month’s interviews.
March 30th, 2006 at 6:10 am
I agree with the once they call you for interview, forget about your academic records. Actually it is very easy to ace an interview if you know what is the company looking for. Heh.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:46 am
hey chooki, remember me? hehe.
anyway, i totally agrees with it..
graduating with first class or watsoever, might not get you high up in the working society.
geeee
March 30th, 2006 at 11:13 am
And you got this epiphany 8 years after your first job interview?
March 30th, 2006 at 1:01 pm
ST - I have to agree with what you were saying.
‘A degree proves nothing, only that you are good at studying, degrees are known to give you no useful practical skills.’
A degree can also prove that you’re capable of plowing through the boring stuff as well. It’s useful if the job has some ‘boring’ parts to it, and the employer likes to know that you are capable of putting up with the boreing bits as well as the exciting bits.
It also shows you are willing to work hard. [Of course, some of the hardest workers aren't always the best workers. Some workers are capable of getting the best results by thinking harder and worling less rather than workin hard and thinking less].
It also at least proves that you know the ‘theory’ of what you’re supposed to be doing as well. [Unless it's a Degree in a different discipline]. Someone who knows the theory with no practical experience is better than someone who has no theory and no practical.
But, I think that’s why most Networking professionals prefer to look for practical experience along with a CCNA or CCNP etc rather than a Degree.
March 30th, 2006 at 2:12 pm
Im guessing here.. maybe I’m wrong.. most of you are not first class student eh?
March 30th, 2006 at 2:20 pm
yeah most of us aren’t and we’re errrrr… SOUR GRAPES hahahaha.
March 30th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
A degree is no cynosure without the right mental attitude and work aptitude.
March 30th, 2006 at 4:17 pm
Ahahhaha…I’m neither first class nor second class. Waitlah I grad first =P
March 30th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
I have a master degree in mechanical engineering (USA), with a minor in mathematics
March 30th, 2006 at 6:11 pm
not all first class honours students are like that.
many first class honours/summa cum laude ended up leading nations & MNCs. many became nobel prize winners, top journalists, wealthy businessmen, scientists, famous writers etc etc.
it’s actually a good thing.
March 30th, 2006 at 7:24 pm
Oh gosh, I needed this so much.
Thanks.
March 30th, 2006 at 8:16 pm
this post is awesome. =D
but of course it doesn’t mean that a person without academic excellence is extremely streetsmart or anything either … I guess at the end of the day, it’s up to us, ourselves, to learn our own lessons and improve along the way. =)
March 30th, 2006 at 10:30 pm
This is a great post.
March 31st, 2006 at 12:28 am
i would agree with liz…exactly.
‘I guess at the end of the day, it’s up to us, ourselves, to learn our own lessons and improve along the way. =)’
the first and/or second class degree is of lesser importance, compared to our attitude.
March 31st, 2006 at 10:23 am
Well one think that I’m sure of, it is no easy task getting first class… And sadly, the fact is I dont have one… therefore I’m in no position to say that first class is nothing.
But I do know having first class, stands you out from the rest of the pack for your first job. Most big MNC only hire first class or extremely smart person. So If you those that have one, I’m so envy at you!
March 31st, 2006 at 11:14 am
i got only 3rd class diploma and now i’m doing fine, got a satisfactory wage. Plus i get to travel once in a while on work purposes. What matters is that one needs to show the desire to learn and gain the invaluable exposure.
April 1st, 2006 at 6:09 am
I don’t have a degree. Or a diploma.
April 1st, 2006 at 9:23 am
BEST COMMENTS”
nekokun:
Im guessing here.. maybe I’m wrong.. most of you are not first class student eh?
Posted Thursday, 30 March 2006, 2:12 pm 37 minishorts says:
yeah most of us aren’t and we’re errrrr… SOUR GRAPES hahahaha.
”
Stereotype as we may - perhaps 25-50% of first class honours are awesome hardworking people with excellent social skills and what not. That percentage might be lower for malaysians given that we re so exam-orientated. For those employers who instantly reject first class honours for not-so-technical jobs - i would say they are choosing to have 2nd class services. a good degree is certainly a good signal to employers regarding the employee’s capability.
ps: i didn’t get first class either.
April 3rd, 2006 at 10:52 am
tomatoinc: i think with this post i’ve sort of betrayed my own ‘tribe’. ^_^
April 4th, 2006 at 5:05 pm
You probably would never read this, I was just browsing through and read this entry of yours. I have to say, being THAT person who is still looking for a job, with really average academic performance, and a very willing-to-learn attitude, I am THAT fresh graduate that yearns the perfect job and with no problem in working my way up from the bottom. Your entry gave me the encouragement and inspiration to work harder and be more optimistic about my future.
April 4th, 2006 at 8:39 pm
i guess, since im having a first class degree…
and employers dont wanna hire employees because FC degree holders are “techy”…
and too cocky..
and too ambitious..
and…. etc etc..
i will be jobless… because employers are stereotyping me on my result even before interviewing me.
gosh.
im so sad…
January 8th, 2007 at 11:15 am
If you say
“A degree proves nothing”, then “a good job might get you nowhere”
What’s the point of getting a job where You don’t even know where you will be after 5 years.
You might end up in retrenchment? Contract not renewed?
Just like some BIG companies IF you were to know them.
And you might need to start from scratch all over again…
After all your hard work and effort you put in, when the company don’t need you anymore, It’s time to say GOODBYE.
The best thing would be is still
BE YOUR OWN BOSS!!!
Well, definitely no easy being a BOSS..
January 9th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
ROTFL! Your friend really cracked me up!
While the attitude of such people might seem like plain ego, their inflated sense of self-worth might be the result of society’s emphasis on paper qualifications.
Perhaps your friends should read this list from my blog (I’m not the author of the list, merely reposting).
http://kennyf.blogspot.com/2006/12/rules-from-bill-gates-i-dont-think-so.html
After all, they did slave for their degrees. In my opinion, as good jobs get more and more specialized, degrees get less and less important.
Of course, I’m speaking from my limited experience in the IT industry. Seems to me a direct certification from say..Microsoft, Sun Microsystems, Cisco or any of those industry giants would better prepare someone for a tech job.
BTW, Bill Gates did not graduate from Harvard. He was a college drop out…not a degree holder. Just an interesting thought.
May 12th, 2007 at 12:20 am
What should a fresh graduate be looking for then? a good experience in an MNC or small company ? Or finding a good earning as a starting? Any good opinion if a fresh graduate starts working at home better compare to working outside with a company?