It’s YOU, not the firm.
Hi. I've got something to say to you, 'Disappointed Local First-Class Graduate', from Kuala Lumpur. You've hit the nail on some spots, but not all. The first was that startling first line about local universities having been blamed for not producing well-rounded students, resulting in unemployable fresh graduates… Another reason that contributes to this problems is maybe that fresh graduates are too choosy in searching for jobs, you say. Well yeah you're right here, in places.
But I completely agree with you, about that biasness bit, and not only that, I've got MORE to add to your wonderful quarter-tabloid-theory there. In fact, you have successfully managed to sum the whole problem up up, in a, well, rather eloquently phrased, but terribly self-serving letter to the editor. I hope you don't mind that I nitpick on the several knots that you've managed to tied yourself in. Like for example, this fantastical paragraph where you've mentioned,
…I was offered a similar post in my host company with the salary of a second-class degree holder.
And then this one as a quick follow-up,
The reason was because my university was not listed as a 'first-tier university' by the company
And your analysed reasons for that possibly dismal SECOND-CLASS DEGREE HOLDER'S salary that you were offered
…some managers have a wrong perception of local private university founded by well-established local firms. … They assume that graduates produced by these universities should only be considered first tier should they work in the field related to the firm that establishes the university.
A while later you also said this,
Paying second-tier salary to highly qualified local graduates who have undergone long internship in similar jobs will indeed give rise to job dissatisfaction…
I'm still nitpicking, but I got tired of pulling out the paragraphs. So I'm going to go ballistics here, and most ppl know I've been very subdued for a long time, so this is a rare moment here, be glad I'm staying up a little later just to write this, yeah?
But first. I just thought I'd share some common observations, and well, you might have heard this before:
Biasness will always occur. It's only natural to be biased. Universities aren't ranked top-tiered for nothing. So well, that watermark on your certificate DID do something to help you get that internship and THAT job you rejected in the first place.
But here's something else you might not have known. Biasness is coupled with something called higher expectations when your degree happens to say 'First Class Honours'. Because that's when people expect you to be a… well, genius of sorts. Not everyone manages to score at least 95% As in every paper during varsity, right? So that, I'm just reminding you. You're very smart to have gotten your first class certification, but when you're certified as EXTRA smart, people tend to expect more.
Oh yeah, someone remind me. What on earth is a 'second-class' salary?
And how the hell did you know the reason for your ex-employers' decision to 'downgrade' your level? Despite your oh-so-great-first class blabla?
I quite like the fact that you summed up the reasons that the managers did not 'live up to your expectations'. You're SOOOOOOOO imaginative, I must say. Probably should have considered seeking a career in mind-reading in your next life. You know, if you believe in reincarnation or that sort of thing. Maybe, you won't have to get disappointed by second-class degree holders' salaries… I heard that mind-reading is a rather niche vocation.
Oh fucks. I got tired of picking on you. You know, for all your perfect English and well-planned words, you're a freaking idiot. I don't know which varsity awarded you the first class honours degree, but obviously you're nowhere near your version of 'socially' impressive. I'm amazed you were even offered a job… because, excuse me, your letter is dripping with arrogance. It's so drenched in narcissistic 'I'M SO GREAT I'M THE BEST EMPLOYEE IN THE WORLD, I'M HIGHLY QUALIFIED' crap, I'm nauseated. And terribly unimpressed. Proof:
I have left my job and am now pursuing my postgraduate degree in a top university overseas, scoring, on average, an A in all of my subjects during my first semester.
Oh, and then, I think its hilariously ironic that you tried to clean up your show-off act with, ' In my humble opinion, local graduates are of the highest quality, and are on par with graduates from other nations, if not better. '
So here it is: I don't think you're humble at all lah. I think you're a bit conceited. OK. Let me correct that.
I think you're VERY conceited. God knows how you even got a job in the first place. Thank god you have that final mite of intelligence to write yourself in as an anonymous 'Disappointed First Class Local Graduate'. Had you put your name down, you would have earned yourself an infamous reputation.
See I'm getting a little tired, and then someone showed me this silly post on Star Blogs, and you know, I pity the poor English-not-so-good guy more than I pity you, despite me shaking my head going, 'How the heck did he graduate anyway?' while I read that thing. At least he's not pathetic you know? At least he's not like you. I mean, he's got a LONG LONG way to go before he reaches the top, but you, my friend, you have a very long way to fall down, and I think the crash on the ground is going to have your guts splattered all over.
You ought to consider yourself fortunate you got my attention. Even if it was a not-so-good one. And you know what, for the worth of that well-written letter to the editor itself? If you ever sit before me to ask me for a job, well I'll tell you no. Right off. Not even your first class honours degree is going to help you impress me.
Because your attitude sucks. And it's showing all over in that hoity-toity little thang you wrote to the editor.
And by the way, just by reading that letter to the editor you wrote? I seriously doubt you deserved your first-class honours. Because you know, sometimes, it's not all about the grades.
I'm at the office today!! Got in earlier just to dig out these two previously related posts for extra reading. Folks, this, and these, are the things that got me annoyed.
June 23rd, 2006 at 11:37 pm
But in Malaysia, it *is* all about the grades. The panel is not going to go, “okay this boy’s thesis however good it is gives me a predominantly stuck-up feeling, that’s less 5 marks.” la la la
June 23rd, 2006 at 11:45 pm
After reading you comment, I got the sense and am sure many others too that “minishots’ is actually more self-absorbed if not mega self-absorbed than the fresh graduate and extremely condescending. You seem to know it all and that’s most scary part and I’m not sure how many out there would want to work with someone who has all the solutions in the universe and with such mega dose of negative ego.
A little humility perhaps may help you as a person and your career in a long run, and right row it spells hindrance if not trouble as far as developing a healthy relationship with your co-workers, friends and families with your baggage of characters.
Re-read what you have written and hopefully you’ll find yourself and see yourself in your own words.
June 24th, 2006 at 12:02 am
malaysians too spoon-fed ler… how many times do we have to swallow then spit? Ok that came out wrong but you know what I mean.
And who wants to come back to work HERE when they can get better pay elsewhere? Luring ppl back on the basis of patriotism - that’s bias.
June 24th, 2006 at 12:08 am
I think firms have every right to be discriminative of their employees. Think in their position.
I agree with you minishorts, that fella is pig-headed lol
June 24th, 2006 at 2:13 am
Touché!
In my entire career, nobody ever need to look at my degree. What an irony huh….all the years spent getting that paper and ended up not needing to use it
June 24th, 2006 at 3:04 am
There’re 2 sides to everything.
Bad employers are as plentiful as bad graduates.
You have the right to choose who to hire just as they have the right to choose whether to work for you or not.
Question of demand and supply.
Well the snotty guy/girl is arrogant but there will be companies that will appreciate his/her academic results, just as there will be those who will reject him/her for that snotty attitude.
One just needs to know how to market themselves appropriately to the right audience.
Can’t say anyone is completely right or wrong for that matter. It’s all a bag of rotten and good eggs from both sides out there.
June 24th, 2006 at 5:13 am
Good grades with a bad attitude will get you nowhere. I’ve known many to be like that. Companies hire them but “let them go” a few months later. Reason to that? They’re too smart to want to be taught.
June 24th, 2006 at 10:36 pm
have to say i agree with megashot…maybe it takes one to know one?
June 24th, 2006 at 10:40 pm
What is in a degree anyway?
It just shows your employee that you’re smart enough to remember a lot of facts (or diligent enough to practice questions repetitively)
What makes a good employee?
Soft skills, willingness/ability to learn, confidence, wit, good communication skills.
By all means students should aspire for a 1st, but they should not be surprised that less accomplished students outperform them in the career rat race.
We have to adjust our expectations and evaluate ourselves critically.
chris
June 24th, 2006 at 11:51 pm
There are employers who actually look at the grades and I’ve also come across companies who gives preferences to candidates from selected universities. They believe those grades and their abilities to enter those universities showed that they are of better breeds. And the employers I’m referring to here are not those cheapo ones but multinational ones in cyberjaya and KLCC. Thus, they get higher start up salary than some candidates.
And where do I get those info from?? Friends who are working in those companies and headhunters who asked me for any potential candidates for those employers.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:02 am
There’s this place in Petaling Street where they’ll employ you without the first class honours, and you can make much more than the first class grad with six times the fun.
June 25th, 2006 at 12:42 am
Having a first class degree with rubbish attitude will not get you far. However, having a second class degree with an exceptional passion to learn and showing the willingness to sacrifice (e.g. willing to work late in order to solve problems, a team player and getting good recommendations from clients and peers) will definitely help you climb the ladder.
I graduated from a local higher institution situated in Borneo (with a 2nd class degree), but after 6 years of working with my current employer (my 1st job since graduated), I’m now a marketing manager of Thailand and Indochina and they even sponsor my MBA. So, my advice to all fresh grads is to show a good attitude and try to gain as much knowledge as possible. Your grades don’t count after you’re absorbed into the firm.
June 25th, 2006 at 5:37 pm
education has nothing to do with success … whatever the definition of success is.. it’s simply a misconception of our narrow-minded society.
June 25th, 2006 at 10:44 pm
really agree with you and that fella is an idiot. the important thing is your att in working not what degree you got. =)
June 26th, 2006 at 5:22 am
When I read the letter in discussion I was left with not an impression but rather a question which goes “…and your point is?”
Whoever wrote the letter obviously lost it; s/he has completely no idea what he’s writing and much less what message s/he’s trying to convey.
Just for the record, good grades don’t mean much and I know that all too well. It takes a whole lot more than that!
June 26th, 2006 at 11:33 am
microshort,
I dont agree. Education is a success by itself. Just doesnt mean, the journey ends there.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:11 pm
I’ve always believed that a good education gets you to the door, while a great education can get you past the door. Either way, the rest is up to you.
I also somewhat agree with megashot’s observation about minishort’s comments. Granted that the writer of the letter is a little clueless, it doesn’t hurt to give other people the benefit of the doubt. We’re not in the dude’s shoes and we dont really know the whole story. You know, there are plenty of fcuked up employers around.
June 26th, 2006 at 2:25 pm
The writer left a strong hint about the university s(he) came from.
June 26th, 2006 at 5:01 pm
First off, nice header!
Now…sorry ah, this is going to be cheong hey.
The graduate fella has a valid point, but as is the problem with most ppl, the delivery was way off (muddled the ppint AND dripping with I’m-SO-clever).
He didn’t get a good offer because (he says, and I agree howdaheck did he know?) the employer took university pedigree into account.
Unfortunately for fresh graduates, the ony thing that prospective employers can go by is the academic record (which is a different issue from university pedigree). Because of the multitude of uni/colleges that have come up like offspring of overly-excited rabbits, we all know that As are not created equal. So university/college pedigrees MUST be taken into consideration.
I think university pedigree does matter- after all, straight As from a ciplak uni is justifiably questionable. Let’s not just talk abt local unis, I know of one uni in Queensland, Aus that is perhaps unfairly sneered at because of rumours that a tycoon set it up because his children were too dumb to qualify elsewhere.
Too badlah, perception of university pedigree, unless we’re talking Harvard, Oxford, LSE, etc, is subjective.
I fully agree that it’s not ALL about the grades. But that’s only true AFTER the first job. How to prove your good attitude/work ethic in a two hour interview? Very difficult. Play your humble card and you might just be written off because you appear timid and lacking in confidence. Play your strength card too fiercely and you get labled arrogant. Interviews really can go either way, human factor-wise.
Smart prospective employers (what other kind would you want to work for?) know that attitude counts in how a person will perform. But the first-job interview can only give them a first impression. Common knowledge that interviewees learn all sorts of interview-acing tips… a lot of what you see during the interview could very well be a human hot air balloon. First impressions can be dangerous.
So, we’re left with grades. And its twin sister, the university pedigree.
I never had a good academic record. The first job paid a measly RM1400 as a first year lawyer. Thereafter, I got most of my next 4 jobs based on my performance record. Whenever I moved into a new area of law, my answer to the inevitable question of “you don’t have any experience in this field, why should I hire you/pay you this high salary you dare to ask for” is “Because I’ve never had any problems adapting to new areas and that’s proven by my bonus record. In short, I’m worth it”.
Attitude = Performance = Quantum of Bonus.
So my only advice to fresh graduate is… your first job is merely a stepping stone. Get it, do it right and prove your belief in yourself by working towards either a fast-track promotion or building up a solid performance record for the next job. If your performance is not rewarded with a good bonus/salary increase, that’s called exploitation, time to move on.
But you can’t get anywhere if you don’t take that first job/stepping stone.
Got plenty of time later for pride in your wonderful self lah.
June 27th, 2006 at 9:03 am
Hi,
I am a strong believer that attitude is important. I had interview a young chap the other day. He was 24 and was working for less than 2 years. He was asking for 4.5k while he was currently earning 2.5k.
Throughout the interview, he kept asking about benefits, salary range and other remuneration related matters. I had told him several times that we will need to find the right candidate first.
With limited work experience, his asking pay was too much to justify.
I was also not comfortable with him always being more concerned about the money than the job.
In the end, I did not hire him…
my 2 cents? Yes, your qualifications will get you the interview but it’s your attitude and perceived commitment to excellence and work ethics that will get you the job. So, if you have already been called for the interview, your qualifications are already acceptable to your prospective employer. It all boils down to how you bring yourself across in the interview.
June 27th, 2006 at 4:57 pm
Screw the entire letter… the only important point was this:
I can agree with that. Why should the employer discriminate based on university while you have proof you are just as good if not better than the graduates of the 1st tier university? I see it as an act of exploitation, taking advantage of the fact that you graduated from a “lesser” university.
However if you have nothing else to prove your ability other than your degree then it is fair game. So take spot’s advice, eat the low salary for a while so you can get the necessary experience then things will get better.
July 3rd, 2006 at 5:39 pm
You hit it right here. I didn’t read the letter but I would say that quite a number of graduates go for an interview with a wrong attitude. They think that after years of studies, it gives them the right to demand what they want from the employer.
I will simply tell them to go fly kite. I have been both an employee and employer. Of course as an employee I want to get as much as possible in terms of salary and benefit from the employer. As an employer, I want to give as little as I can to the employee as long as it commensurates with his contribution to my company. Having said that, I will pay a fair amount.
A degree is a useful tool. But what more important is the attitude and the personality that you carry the degree with. Without the right personality and attitude, the degree is as good as a piece of toilet tissue, that is to wipe your arse.
As for which country or university the graduate comes from, its only relevance is to check the validity of the degree.
Here’s a simple tip. When I select applicants for interview, I hardly look at the content of the CV. Reason: simple, I have already stated what I want in the advertisement for the post, so most applicants have the basic requirements. What I do is look at the picture and look at how the CV is typed. A picture tells a thousand words. I’m not looking if the person is handsome or beautiful or not. I’m looking for presentability and attitude. Trust me, it shows. The way that someone types or arranges the CV also tells volumes about the person.
So, if I don’t like the picture and how the CV generally looks, I just junk the whole thing. No, I don’t care if the guy as a super-duper 1st Class honors or on Dean’s list.