life, love, *motherhood, and then more
We are not retards.
I'm terrified of fundamentalists. Because they go by a 'it's my way or the highway' principle. That makes them terribly difficult people to deal with. Now, putting my declaration here in context, I have to quote Bukan Islam Liberal:
What kind of retard would ever consider such a religion and embrace it as their way of life, to the extent that they are willing to leave the beautiful ad-Deen which is Islam for the reckless pursuits of a man-made religion?
I am deeply insulted, because by your definitions and quotes, I am your kind of retard who has embraced the reckless pursuits of a man-made religion.
Bad enough that the whole Lina Joy issue has escalated to such heights, today some people have gone straight to the police and prosecuted the entire church in the process. Seeking Justice, they call it.
In the process, seeking justice also has to include the name calling. 'Religion of retards', 'agama dongengan'.
On Your Labels
This is my blog and I will say this here now:
WE ARE NOT RETARDS.
CHRISTIANITY is NOT an AGAMA DONGENGAN.
I'M A 6TH GENERATION MALAYSIAN CHINESE AND I AM EVERY BIT AS MALAYSIAN AS YOU ARE, EVEN THOUGH OUR SKIN COLOUR AND OUR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ARE IN CONTRADICTION WITH EACH OTHER.
I don't understand why you're so generous with your vicious labels. Maybe somewhere in your history of being in this fallen world, someone came into your life and taught you that being prominently opinionated and dogmatic about your principles in living life by God are important and necessary steps to future seal your place in your Paradise.
Or maybe you're scared that Your God thinks you're an infidel just for being polite to people who do not think the same as you do. Maybe you need to show-off the the physical bits of being religious so that you will not be accused as being untrue to your religion. Maybe you need to label believers among your own religion with blasphemous words, so that God will take notice of you and grant you favours. Maybe you feel that you have a duty on earth and right now your special duty is to ensure that people who misunderstand Islam get their facts right. Your way.
I suppose people like you would have your reasons for behaving like such ignorant, unyielding blockheads. In your book, we're the crazy ones, the ones who don't get what it's supposed to be like. So you guys say, 'Go ahead, its not your concern, this is our call, stay out.'
Usually, I shut up because I choose to respect your principle. It's simple, almost acceptable, even if its tinged with lunacy. Your life, your choices, the way you choose to practise your beliefs, has nothing to do with me, and rest assured I am not about to tamper in your life. I strongly believe that you have a right to behave the way you want to behave.
But I CANNOT just sit and accept when you heap slander on my beliefs, my rights, my community, MY COUNTRY.
On Conversion
Many families have had to suffer the 'shame' of having family members choosing a religion that is not of the handed-down type. Every time someone chooses to convert, he makes a difficult decisionthat will inevitably affect the people around him. All converts to any religion would have felt this 'persecution', and the whole conversion process is a painful but necessary process, because they come with unneeded, illogical accusations, words like
'You are displeasing the family by doing this. I have brought you up so many years and now you won't choose to worship a foreign God. YOU ARE BOUND FOR HELL.'
Yet people choose to go through it, after long thought, and that alone is something respectable, and admirable. Because the fact is, the decision to leave a religion is NOT a simple one. Conversion bukanlah sesuatu yang patut dimaki.
Religion has been and always will be a sensitive matter. The struggles we all choose to take in faith are difficult ones, each requiring far more than combinations of responsibility, commitment and dedication. Every believer has his own story of his journey in faith.
In all our stories, we all share the same episode, the one where we have to deal with the sticky situation of being questioned by KPC idiots. Whether you are Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Islam or Atheist for that matter, you will, at least once in your life, have to face someone who is opposed to your beliefs (or the way you practise your beliefs), and that same someone will take it upon himself to teach you 'the right way'.
For me, a brother in Christ told me that 'Yoga' is unChristian, and that I should renounce it, in order to maintain my hold on God and to stay true to His path. A Taoist friend of mine who is dating a Muslim boyfriend has had to deal with persecution from strangers who have all started to care about what happens to her, her family and her offspring if she chooses to marry him. Another Buddhist acquaintance was chided by members of his temple association because he did not contribute enough to the temple fund. I had a Christian friend who was thrown out of his Hindu family just because he chose to believe in Jesus Christ. Kay poh chis, people who require you behave like them or else burn in their version of hell, coming into our lives and giving us a piece of their mind, on the same pretext that 'We care for you, we want you to do it right.' .
All these are real-life experiences that have happened to more than one person in this country. For some people, they get it worse than we do, so bad it's almost traumatic. For them, they get hordes of caring strangers barging into their lives, wanting a piece of the decision making power, and calling out God's name in the process of unlawful intervention. They go to extreme measures, like reporting a place of worship to the police just because it allowed the baptism of an apostate from a religion. Never mind that all that showcase of care and concern was unwelcome in the first place, these people just have to make their point shown you see. The concept of 'Personal Space' simply means nothing to them.
Maybe it's part-and-parcel of what makes Malaysians so 'caring' towards each other.
Ideally, we ought to applaud the intensity of this mob reaction, this united show of 'we-care'. Unfortunately, in some cases, I wish our countrymen knew how to adopt the tidak-apa attitude. See, being tidak-apa is one of the greatest sins of Malaysians. Why, just yesterday morning Mix FM DJs Richard and Ika were lamenting on how Malaysians generally are so tidak-apa about the state of our environment. Leatherback turtles are almost extinct and you see still idiots dumping used plastic bags into the sea.
But, damn it Richard and Ika you guys are wrong. Malaysians are selectively tidak-apa you know? Environment matters? Eh nothing concerning them, so they'll just leave it be. Not even the fact that God entrusted this earth to us to care and cherish and protect will divert their attention to what matters, so the rubbish keeps piling up, the earth can die for all they care.
Instead, what now matters is not the environment, but how another single human being chooses to practise his beliefs. The scenario is this: Who is this Lina Joy? I don't know her personally, but she's making a terrible mistake. I don't want her to go to hell, I'm protecting her and the sovereignity of my religion/race. I'm going to speak up, I'll rally supporters and we will show it to them. Don't mess with us, we have been silent for too long. Someone else has deviated from the true path, hmmm yes this is trespassing into my territory. Does it matter that I should check on my own journey first? No, I want to show I care. We'll throw her out, yes.
Well, 'throwing her out' that's almost fair and dandy, technically, if you follow strictly to the tenets of religion. There was some logicality to the initial outcry, until they went too far and brought it to the police, for God's sake (pun intended), until they started to confuse citizenship rights, racial differences, religious superiority. They went overboard.
On Freedom of Expression
What I'm saying here is, I do respect all the vocal expressions, the speaking up and the open discussion and declarations of love for one's God. This open outcry is phenomenal and by all means we should celebrate this development in free speech. And I can understand the emotional outbreaks, if I were in your shoes, when the status and dignity of my religion is at stake, of course, it's terribly passive to just sit down and shut up? I would choose not to take the tidak-apa road. Yet I would understand and know where to draw the line.
Instead, in your fervour to fight for your rights and requirements, you people come out in your throngs and call believers of Christ 'Retards' and that the religion is an 'Agama Dongengan', you guys pull in race and skin colour into your fight (for God-knows-what), you people keep reminding us that UNFORTUNATELY we're but second-class citizens because we are outnumbered. In doing all these you guys have gone too far, and I CANNOT shut up even if I am a minority, because being minority does not mean you will bully me at will.
So you can applaud all you want the apparent 'failure' of the Article 11 Coalition. You can say that the forums have disappeared and the formations of your forums to oppose this freedom of interfaith discussions in the country are great victories in the name of your God, and maybe, just maybe, we will sit in silence and watch and listen, maybe it is to your pleasure that we behave like meek rabbits in a cage.
But please, do not take it too far. AS FAR AS PEOPLE WILL NOT INSULT YOUR RELIGION, DON'T DO THE SAME UNTO OTHERS, UNTO YOUR FELLOW COUNTRYMEN, WHETHER OR NOT WE ARE OUTNUMBERED.
Do not call us retards, or say that we believe in a fairy tale religion, DO NOT LABEL US as 'YOUR KIND'. Whether you like it or not, we are Malaysians too, and we love this country every bit as much as you do, if not more.
To the person who wrote this line in her statements, 'In any case, as much as YOU have the right to this country, remember, Malaysia is not a Western or Christian country. Your parents or great grandparents moved here knowing that this is a Muslim country and should already know what is in store for them. You got what you bargained (or bought) for.'
I'm not crying foul for being born Malaysian. Please do not confuse the issue. Have you no sense of respect? And when my forefathers set foot and decided to make Malaysia home, there wasn't this issue of which religious group has a bigger stake of ownership in the country. Sure, our land is not-a-free-for-all kind of country, but neither is there a stamp that says 'Muslims' only.
And even if Malaysia is a Muslim country as labelled by you, She is still part of planet Earth, and as citizens of this world it is a requirement of us human beings to accept everybody's differences and strive to live in harmony no matter how difficult tolerating other people's opinions can get.
Congratulations, dudes
Because it seems to matter so much to you, that physical trophy, I'll oblige and congratulate you. Go ahead and claim your glory, now that you are so-called wielding your torch of victory. I'll just leave you with this: You can put a man behind bars, but you cannot change what is in his heart, his mind or his soul. That will always belong to him and him alone.
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about 4 years ago
I tink sum one is so much the confused in use of Engrish. That sum one uses BIG words I no understand – “Christians …whine.” Blah blah blah
so I lookee up the England Dictionary since that sum one uses Engrish.
I find this
Whine :
1 To utter a plaintive, high-pitched, protracted sound, as in pain, fear, supplication, or complaint.
2 To complain or protest in a childish fashion.
3 To produce a sustained noise of relatively high pitch: jet engines whining.
Rebut
1. To refute, especially by offering opposing evidence or arguments, as in a legal case.
2. To present opposing evidence or arguments.
Aiyoo …so the very ‘learned person’ oso no understanding the England language he using. I pleanty the confused coz when the ‘learned person’ …’the all knowing person’ speaks up for his beliefs – it is in defence of it; when he ‘hits out’ at Christians, he is defending his beliefs ; when he tries to ‘rebut’ views other than his, he is not whining but ‘refuting’ and ‘ arguing his case’ ….BUT when his views are rebutted, the persons rebutting his stand are ‘whining’ etc etc (adoi – too many labels bantered by the ‘most learned one’ for my ‘small’ brain to remember)
Oso …last last time ..when I small, small, my teacher teached me that when want to present argument – must see things from both sides – give balanced view lah ..oso must not use emotive words – can loss debate one coz judges will say : “They lost the debate because their arguments were lopsided (at best) and irrational (at worse) . “
Oso – I no go to his site anymore – coz a friend telling me every time I go there he getting more money with each ‘click’ – so he baiting us to go there …. true ahh?
Last note (not music note lah – I check dictionary – can use this word one) – my very good friend who is a practicing Muslim and whom I truly respect says : Islam recognizes Jesus as a prophet – so when a Muslim insults Jesus re masturbation – it is not a right thing to do.
IMHO, ridiculing and insulting anyone or any religion – be it Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity and many of the other world religions is NOT RIGHT.
about 4 years ago
elanie: not the first time this happens, everytime a perceived ‘PDRM’ episode comes up, it occurs.
about 4 years ago
“Dearest Kate,
Since you are NOT a Muslim, you have NO right to judge what is Beautiful and what is not of Islam because you DO NOT know the laws of Islam.
Period.
Rachel”
Does Menj and Rachel meant to say they are allowed to judge other religions?
Oh wait..maybe they are geniuses, having read other religions , and knowing the laws of other religions….:P
All that said, the core of ANY religion is to do good, be accountable , be responsible etc etc etc….i don’t recall ever reading about “creating discord among people”
about 4 years ago
Iris: It doesn’t make sense eh? THere they are judging other people and yet claim that others have no right to judge them.
I respect other people’s beliefs. Individuals have a right to decide what they belief. But for rediculing and belittling other people based on what they choose to belief out of their own free will, this I cannot accept. I am offended by his words.
Sad that we have such people in our midst.
about 4 years ago
Invite those interested to read an exchange between myself and MENJ on his blog.Would like to encourage those who have something to say to say it.Thank you, Mini for this forum/avenue to speak.Or write.
about 4 years ago
Someone mentioned the word paradox. It’s true that any religion exhorts its followers to love their fellow man and to be tolerant yet all religions seem to say that their way is the only way, the true way.
Most people choose a more liberal view, more practical but are they not guilty of watered down faith for the laws of God are higher than the laws of men.
about 4 years ago
i’m not really intelligent enough to comment properly on the issue at hand.
all i can say is thanks for writing this post. it reflects everything that any thinking malaysian feels about…everything. while i think that it is brave of you to always stand up and write about religion and the law and malaysian society, i appreciate more the fact that you manage to put it in a manner where people should have no trouble in understanding exactly what point you’re making.
and you do it without insulting anyone.
which is more than i can say about some of the comments here.
but thanks again for showing that not all malaysians are ignorant and choose to be blind towards what really matters – the peace and progress in our country – and instead resort to childish words and actions to defend points that are actually of no relevance here.
about 4 years ago
You know how these people think. For even defending your own religion or making a stand, they may assume you’re insulting theirs.
Let’s hope I am proven wrong.
Defence is not offence, some people need to get that right.
about 4 years ago
A well written entry. No matter what this MenJ fella claims, deep down we all know better. Don’t even bother.
about 4 years ago
The Ownage hereby declares that content on minishorts.net is worthy of public viewing. The Ownage supports minishorts.net in its attempts to express one’s feelings towards this particular subject.
The Ownage thinks however, that the author of article.. http://www.bukanliberal.org/articles/311/ , should act more maturely and responsibly and be more considerate to The Ownage and other people, for in that article written, The Ownage has been insulted to a Xth degree by said author of article.
The Ownage would one day like to engage said author in a mature and intellectual discussion on said matters where The Ownage will lay the smack down of all smack downs on the said author and in the end come out of said discussion bearing the banner, “You have been pwned noob.”
Down with close minded retards. Long live the Duracell bunny.
about 4 years ago
MENJ has blocked Malaysian IPs again.
about 4 years ago
Emmanuel – When the going gets tough, MENJ shuts himself off from the world… how very (un)intelligent and cowardly… well, good riddance to bad rubish.
about 4 years ago
yep was really hoping my comments meant something la but apparently not.
about 4 years ago
Ah yes, backbiting.
- MENJ
about 4 years ago
I guess people like that will never accept any other’s opinions/perspective that does not tally with their own.
And when there are more of those who oppose, defeated, they retreat back into their caves while planning for another joint – with maybe a larger gathering. It’s not the end with these people, what they stand for is not something that we cannot fully comprehend. It’s not Islam. Their interpretation of the religion makes it a whole new one with bits and pieces of the older reference religion infused to make it sound like said religion. And that IS scary.
about 4 years ago
I think we should have the freedom to make choices, even choose our religion if we want to. The one who makes the choice, will have to live with the consequences of their decisions made. Who are we condemn/question their choice?
At the end of the day, God will judge.
Seriously all the banter, in the end, God is the one who judges .
So first be accountable for your self;)
Your God will decide what happens to your after-life…
I think we can’t change how MENJ/Rachel think.
It’s too deeply INGRAINED, and let’s not stoop to the same level…
Let’s just pray for him and his sister.
about 4 years ago
If you were to take any organized religion seriously, you should be able to handle some joke, even a mild and harmless one. Hmm.. actually they don’t mix too well, kind of mutually exclusive. If the ultimate goal is a ticket to heaven, and if you ever wonder, your chance is 50-50, which means it’s as good as anyone else. You don’t need to spend 7 years in a religious college to find out. Then what? Happily ever after?
Seriously how could one possibly take any religion seriously? Islam is not ‘based on the concept’ that you have shown. I have to delete this because this post takes critical assessments of all religions seriously, and is not a platform to speak ill of Islam.
about 4 years ago
Honey I’m sorry, but I think you’d understand why I’m deleting this. OK?
about 4 years ago
MENJ- not backbiting.Wondering why you would block people at this point of time.No one threatened to take you to the police.You are being unnecesarily paranoid.I have no way of replying to you, neither do I know your reply to the issues I have raised whereby in my opinion Islam is not being challenged by anyone in this country and that your fears are unfounded.I’ll have to post it in my blog then, since you have blocked me as well, and using a proxy doesn;t seem to work as well.
about 4 years ago
“why you would block people at this point of time.”
I am blocking all Malaysians with immediate effect, and this will be in force until further notice. I am also removing myself and my blog from the blogosphere (i.e. PPS).
Oh, dont worry however, I will be around though, and through my proxies…but it wont be under the initials M.E.N.J.
- MENJ
about 4 years ago
You have not answered the questions raised, don’t you think its neccesary at this juncture?
about 4 years ago
@Emmanuel: I haven’t forgotten, if that is what you are implying.
- MENJ
about 4 years ago
I will respond in my blog.
about 4 years ago
Urgh.. Menj is like that little fly that goes around buzz buzz and buzzing. I can’t wait till someone use that electric fly attractor thing and goes “bbzzzttt!”
about 4 years ago
@Emmanuel: Response noted. You will know about the reply when it appears.
- MENJ
about 4 years ago
lol, number 76!
about 4 years ago
MENJ: I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but I’ve a message for you on my blog too.
about 4 years ago
Mini says:
Religion has been and always will be a sensitive matter. The struggles we all choose to take in faith are difficult ones, each requiring far more than combinations of responsibility, commitment and dedication. Every believer has his own story of his journey in faith.
I do not see religion as a sensitive matter. Under the 1st Ammendment codified in the Constitution of the U.S. of A, it is perfectly legal to speak about any religion, even if you are not its adherent. Nor is evangelism/ prosetylising/preaching the Christian way of life to a non Christian wrong, immoral or illegal. The U.S. of A is the most religious of all Western societies, perhaps because it is the only Western society controlled by the religious right.
Alvin says:
Please stop preaching and start living the faith which you claim to believe. Which part of your belief system teach you to demean or insult other religions? Action speaks louder than words.
Why should a Christian person who lives a Christian way of life stop preaching (which means the same as evangelism or prosetylising) to unbelievers? Are you not aware that evangelism of Muslims (even if it may be illegal under the Malaysian Constitution of 1963) is a part of the Christian living. Even in the Roman Empire, from 33 C.E. onwards, Christians began breaking every law that forbade prosetyling of unbelievers, regardless Jews and Gentiles alike. The commands of God cannot be revoked and our vision is to strive of a Christian State modeled by Roman Emperor Constantine.
Jesus was father of democracy and he gave orders to His Holy Apostles to conquer the Roman Empire in 400 years democratically (ie via love). On the 4th century, the Roman Empire was successfully conquered.
Only fake Christian who is hardly Christian, in fact really communist (like Vladimir Lenin or Josef Stalin or Edward W Said) will say prosetyling is wrong. However, it is wise to note that the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the 1st Ammendment of the Constitution of the U.S. of A. both allow prosetylising, evangelism or preaching Christian way of life to not just believers but also unbelievers.
about 4 years ago
I personally find that site, Ibrahim Ali, offensive, and unbecoming of ‘Christian behavior’. As much as I condemn fundamentalists of any religion, I have to admit that even in my own belief systems there are reactions by Christians which leave much to be desire. This is not the first time I’ve highlighted this issue, and I will not allow this discussion to continue thereafter…
I sum it up as this, ‘we all will agree to disagree, but against fundamentalist behaviours that threaten to be detrimental towards the better peace of all nations, we will speak up in unison against such uncontrolled behavior. And this is what this platfomr has been all about.’
Thank you everyone.
Let’s move on to better things.