life, love, *motherhood, and then more
Conversations with the Believers
Hey you. I just wanted to speak to you a bit. About our beliefs, and the details in these things that draw the line between my values and yours.
But just before that, to be safe, I have to apologize to you for the things I'll be saying that might sound hurtful to you. I'm sorry if you find my words a little harsh. And yes, perhaps my apology is rather little feeble to you, but I do hope you'll try to say 'I don't mind the criticisim'.
You see, and I'm going to be, well, brutally honest here, to borrow a quote from elsewhere. But know this, I'm attempting to be constructive. I'm just learning the ropes here, dear sir, ma'am, I'm taking a cue from you. Because you started this 'questioning' first, all these 'comparative religion' mumbo-jumbo, and the rest have the world have said, 'We don't mind' for some while.
So before you get angry, try not to mind, okay?
I just wanted to tell you, a few things about your version of 'the truth'. I don't get this. I know that this is a holy month, and folks like you have to fast, that there's a meaning to it. I think it's noble, and I know it takes a lot of perseverence and patience, to see through the entire month. I admire the fact that you place so much more emphasis to living the way God wants you to live, but, I'm sorry, there's just one thing I don't quite understand.
You can invite me to berbuka puasa at your place of worship, but you can kindly deny an invitation to a wedding reception of another friend, simply because it is going to be held in a church?
When I visited your mosques, knowing that it is a mark of respect to cover my head, I took it upon myself to adorn a veil. I could listen in earnest to the tales you tell me of your prophet, and I'm intrigued by the messages of religious piety you have in all your teachings. I'm open to the unknown, I'm willing to learn, but I don't get your rejection of an invitation to attend a Christian marriage ceremony in church.
You see, the surprise is, not everyone extends you an invitation to a wedding ceremony, and when someone gives you a card and invites you to come, it's an honour in itself. It's the witnessing of a union among two people in love, and yes, unfortunately, they choose to do it in Church.
And you tell us, that you have to kindly deny that invitation because, excuse me, it's going to be held in a church? Because your religion mocks upon the very tenets of the Christian faith, and you seem to believe that setting foot into another place of worship (other than a mosque) will gravely affect your 'good behaviour score-sheet' with your God?
Excuse me while I ponder the ludicrousness of this notion.
And while I'm at it I'd also like to tell some people that mocking upon another person's decision to CHOOSE another God other than their own as 'escapism and shirking of responsibilities towards facing up to their deeds' is an act of disrespect. No amount of proclaiming the glory of your God will cancel out the distaste that you've left in our regards of you.
For your information, mind you, the problem with kaffirs like me is we have our very own ideas and visions of Heaven, and whether you like it or not you have to live with the fact that you won't really know what's over there when we die, so while you're here on earth please do us a favour and stop preaching hell because well.
Some people, most people, really, don't care.
Hey you. Yeah I'm talking to you. I can't help thinking about our little discussion the other day? You know? That one where our friend just mentioned in passing about the fact that Feng Shui has been built into modern architecture these days?
I can't help recalling that terrible look of disgust on your face the moment our friend mentioned the words 'feng shui'.
For God's sake, please do some read up into an 'art' that has been in existence for over 6000 years. And stop comparing a non-religious cultural concept with Christianity. You ought not mix up the two. You don't see Fengshui masters having ching-chong-chang ceremonies where they do a big worship ceremony to cast away the devils, or enact strange monuments of long-dead Chinese generals to invite better business. No, classical fengshui really (excuse the Lilian Too version) is mostly about placements of objects, airing of spaces, and it's quite PRACTICAL.
Well, granted, a lot of fengshui masters do a bit of mix and match and inject a little bit of spirituality into their work, but studies of fengshui is now quite scientifical and devoid of religious requirements.
In your own words, 'They can pay a bomb to incorporate nonsensical stuff like fengshui all they want, but when God strikes, they can't hide. Hell is but a whisper away.' You want to pull your fundamentalist theories into your rejection of an intrinsic part of Chinese culture? Excuse me?
And while you're smashing up other Eastern influences like Yoga, or Reflexology, or even, God forbid, martial arts like Kungfu or Taekwondo or Ninjutsu, and oh Lord, the CHINESE DRAGON! Allow me to laugh off your concepts of all these Eastern Influences inviting the devil, and pleasing the devil.
Just because you're Chinese or Indian, just because you're EASTERN doesn't make you evil you know? And for God's sake don't go into extremisms and reject the beautiful symbols that have become a part of our culture for ages.
You see, some people create rules to protect their own versions of morality, and they choose to affect their lesser followers with their concepts of right and wrong. You allow these people to influence your relationships with God, so much that you make it a point to obey all these man-made restrictions and man-made contempts of your very cultural upbringing. Just because you're born of a different colour doesn't exempt you from God, just because he's a leader doesn't make him more favourable to God. You allow him to judge you, but who's going to judge him?
Don't turn Christianity into a worship of Western Ideals, and just the same don't, turn Islam into a worship of Arabic ideals. We are Asian, thoroughly and thoroughly, and our culture, although alien to the original preachers, is not evil nor is it immoral.
Hey you. I just wanted to tell you what I heard at church the other day, because it's rather relevant. He was talking about Christianity in general, but I want to extend his message to the rest of the world.
You know, a lot of people seem to think that certain privileges granted unto them by God are a confirmation of their holiness. Whether it is accepting salvation by professing Christ, or choosing to walk the path of a devout Muslim, or whether it is the choice to pay homage to all the Hindu/Taoist Deities one has had the good Karma to encounter… we all pray with this one single motive.
We all intend to acquire something for one's own benefit.
You know lah, what happens. My old Ah Po used to burn thousands of Gold Paper because she believed that Tua Peh Kong will bless her with riches if she sacrifices enough Gold Paper to him. She does the rituals because she wants to gain a longer life, more money, she wants happiness in her family, she wants her kids to be richer than her. She doesn't even think of heaven and hell, because in most Chinese-Taoist lifestyles, Hell is an accepted fact… so all she cares about is how to gain better materials to provide for a more comfortable life, here, on earth.
Now, don't be appalled by this very radical explanation. While you live to die, some people choose to live to live, or live for their Children. While you want is go to heaven, and the promises of God's love in heaven, some people want other things, like for their kids to get smarter (so they go and pray to another deity to ask for wisdom).
You might want to call this materialism, that they want superficial, unimportant things.
But I'll just tell you this. You're just the same. You want something too, you want Heaven. And sure, you might call it 'important', the most important thing ever. Except this, 'importance' is a relative concept.
Don't you EVEN dare try to tell people who believe in Hell only that there is a Heaven waiting, because when you try to do that you'll have to make up stories and visions that have yet to be proven (because no one has comeback from 3 days in Heaven to tell you what he saw). Oh before you talk about people who've come back from the dead, I'd like to kindly inform you that each religious belief has its own versions of near-death-experiences, so mind you, which is the real thing?
So the painful truth is, you're just as greedy as the next 'pray for 4D number to strike grand prize' aunty. You've turned the entire concept of Godly love and Godly relationship into one of greed and materialism.
I just wanted to say this to those of you who believe in a single deity, who believe in absolute hells and heavens… I pray that in your fervour to mission to other people, you ask yourselves about what it is you're doing and what are you saying to our friends in your mission statements of faith. What is your core message, how do you preach the Good News?
How would you turn out sounding to these people who just don't mind Eternal Hell?
I pray that we all examine ourselves, deep inside, how we regard God. Are we grateful to him for what He has given to us? Or are we all waiting for a future that He promises us, in the afterlife? Are we grateful because God exists, and are we merely preaching because we expect a return from Him in the form of Heaven? Are we really thankful for Him, or are we actually, greedy for Him?
Because the way I've observed things, we've all turned religions of the divine into religions of greed.
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about 3 years ago
you go , girl!
if we do GOOD for the sake of wanting to get into heaven, then it makes us insincere. we’re doing it cos we’re expecting something in return. like BONUSLINK points, accumulate enough and u gain entrance to the pearly gates.
about 3 years ago
A couple of Sundays ago, the theme at church was being closer to God and all that. In the middle of a sharing, a polyphonic ringtone belted out and I muttered on the top of my voice “THAT surely must be God trying to get closer”. Talk about being closer to God yet not having any respect whatsoever to Him and fellow believers.
Religion now has sadly lost its real purpose.
about 3 years ago
A prime minister once warned of the evils of “Western Influence” He was right! The only thing is people mistake is how far west this influence actually comes from. For sure, the spirit of Malaysia is being corrupted by this western influence.
about 3 years ago
viceice, i find it interesting that you reject western influence when it is precisely because of western influence (in the form of st francis xavier and his missionary work) that you practise the faith you currently practise… was western influence not corrupting the ‘spirit of malaysia’ in 1545? if he hadn’t turned up, for all intents and purposes you might be a muslim today.
think about that one!
about 3 years ago
Daringly said, and quite beautifully put
about 3 years ago
1) i believe that Muslims have strict customs that requires them not to be involved in other religions and they might just afraid of being punished by their God. Just because we may be graceful enough to accept their invitations to go to the mosque doesn’t mean that we should expect them to do it in return coz we must understand and accept the religious customs that they should abide to. And I believe we should respect and honour their faith for being obedient to their Holy One. Just imagine, how would people feel if they see a Muslim going to a church when they are not supposed to? That person doesn’t go around telling them, oh because my friend came to a mosque so i should reciprocate. True, it’s sad that they cannot attend the wedding in church, but we can’t really blame them, you see.
2) I think ure right about the FengShui point. Christianity is NOT a western influence and we should never ever bring ourselves to believe that.
3) Before i turned to God i had experienced so many things that I am thankful for and believing in Him has since revealed that all those had been because of Him and that He loves us no matter what. I am grateful for Him. =)
about 3 years ago
10 reasons i love minishorts:
1. she is cute
2. she is sexy
3. she wears minishorts
4. she is outspoken
5. she is cute
6. she has strong opinions
7. she loves me
8. i love her
9. love those minishorts!
10. she is minishorts.
about 3 years ago
true serendipity.
so likewise, i also believe some people ought to respect OUR beliefs and not cast us off as infidels, pigs or monkeys.
about 3 years ago
Very, very brave post. I know this is stereotyping but, most muslims will not accept what you have written down here – their world is too narrow, too rigid, too black and white for them to see and accept alternative viewpoints.
about 3 years ago
to add on.
I could do the same.
I could be equally fundamentalist. I could turn into an x’tian who would say no to visiting a temple or a mosque. In fact, I’ve met many x’tians who do the same.
And I find it equally hard to deal with them.
i say this now. if we have to live with fundamentalists, maybe fundamentalists need to know what it means to be ‘liberal’, or what it means to be ‘secular’. how we also take God close to heart, and how we feel so broken when God’s name is said in vain, all for the sake of greed.
about 3 years ago
Mini, such a daring post. Well done, enjoyed reading it.
i). All belief systems have their own set of commands, criteria on how to live doesn’t matter whether it is Christianity, Islam, Buddhist, or Hindus. We are called to respect each other faiths and not tear down one another with debates of who is right and who is wrong, who is holier, which belief system is more superior. We walk together side by side regardless of different religions showing love for one another. Isn’t that what Christ called us to do? Loving our neighbors as ourselves.
ii). I’m saddened at the fact that many chose the negative way to share about their beliefs by insulting, demeaning other faiths. Calling names, hurling insults are of no reflection of what our God is truly about regardless of whether it is Christianity, Islam, Buddhist, or Hindus. Everyone is guilty for that.
iii). I’d believe to follow Christ, there is a price to pay. Taking up His cross and deny our flesh daily. His cross is heavy, and it does cost us something to follow Him.
Continue to churn out mind provoking entries.
Bless you.
about 3 years ago
Dear All,
Not all Muslims are as per anttyk description. I am a Muslim and I don’t see any problems of a Muslim going to church to attend a friend’s wedding. Anyone says otherwise, be it from a Muslim scholar or an infidel, do not truly understand the concept of Islam.
Too lazy to elaborate,
chiows.
about 3 years ago
I, on the other hand, have met people like you described in “Part 1″. About 10 years ago when we were young and still naive, these people, Christians, tried their very best to coax my sister and I to attend church, to join their service, to join their fellowship etc, despite knowing very well that we were Buddhists. Needless to say, my sister and I joined them quite often because we didn’t get to play games at temples, and because Mum didn’t see it as a problem to mix with them.
But when the temples organize their fund-raising activities where lots of food and other merchandise were sold (to raise funds), none of them turned up. And by attending the fund-raising activity, we weren’t even required to sing hymns or whatever.
This, I believe, just goes to say that not all Christians or Buddhists or Muslims are like that handful of people we had the “bad luck” of knowing.
about 3 years ago
Rijac… My apologies for being too subtle. My point was that Arabia is to the west of us as well and in Malaysia’s drive towards Islam, our culture is being eroded by Arabic culture on the false premise that to be more Arabic is to be more Islamic.
It is not only a great pity that beautiful Malay culture is being destroyed by so called religious who would forsake their roots, but as this seeps into civil life it is also eating away at what it was that held Malaysia together.
Hence, on the evils of western influence, “The only thing is people mistake is how far west this influence actually comes from.”
about 3 years ago
point taken. no apology needed. thanks.
about 3 years ago
Bravo, Minishorts. No one could have put it more succinctly. I’ve had enough of the “fundamentalists”(I call them less desirable names) to last a lifetime. Personally, I don’t believe in a God, but the choice to do so is a freedom that was guaranteed in my country’s constitution, if I’m not mistaken. How did that “freedom” to believe become an insiduous, institutionally discriminating force that has corrupted the intellectual landscape of Malaysia while creating this godawful rift amongst the peoples of this country?
As a scientist, I have nothing but disdain for the concept of organised religion, and I have especially strong views against the main ones. Nevertheless, respect for another’s freedom of belief is a given. Dismissing ones’ choice of religion by using bigoted, rude comments while promoting yours by using equally ridiculous concepts is just hypocritical. By hiding behind that sullied veil of theological superiority, you believe you have carte blanche to insult and demean another’s faith.
Fighting in the name of religion is the same as f***ing in the name of virginity, you blinker-ed fool.
about 3 years ago
Quote: We all intend to acquire something for one’s own benefit.
Well, the fact is that Jesus died for your benefit.
Quote: You want something too, you want Heaven.
We were made for eternity. Fact is, you want something too. You want to live for yourself. If you think your world merely revolves around you and whatever you make it to be; If you think you’re so clever, that there’s no God in this world… face it. There’s not much reason for you to continue living (besides living for yourself).
Someday we’re all going to die. No doubt about that. My aswell stop what you’re doing since it will all fade away when you’re gone.
We were meant to live for so much more.
Have a read if you’re interested. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203:3-18;&version=51;
Take care. And don’t stop questioning your beliefs. =)
about 3 years ago
shaunewe: does my post come across as hating God, or does it come across as hating people who choose to make God a material possession?
did I offend you in anyway?
is it because I’m unconventional, because I question the behaviour of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus etc, who choose to act as if God is an exclusivity, or choose DISRESPECT as the only way to glorify one’s God?
about 3 years ago
Just to ask something, however unrelated it is.
Why must worship sessions be ‘sessions’ and in groups and not done alone?
I’m not being sarcastic or anything.
about 3 years ago
no, i am not offended in any way at all.
to me, your post merely shows that you have questions and your heart yearns for answers.
Quote: Is it because I’m unconventional, because I question the behaviour of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus etc, who choose to act as if God is an exclusivity, or choose DISRESPECT as the only way to glorify one’s God?
I don’t blame you for questioning the behaviours of these ppl because truly, they do not reflect the true teachings of the religion itself. Personally, i don’t see Christianity as a religion, rather a relationship with God.
That aside, if life merely consists of what we do from day to day, I would say life is futile. Life is meaningless. One would think that there has got to be more to life than this. And there is. I just wanted to share.
Don’t get caught up over the things that others do: their behaviours, the way they treat their God. Very likely, what they are doing is wrong, but they will be responsible for their own conduct. Don’t judge God by his ppl and the things they do. They may be doing the wrong thing. Even Jesus rebuked the pharisees, who were the religious teachers of God’s chosen ppl in the past.
You have to search for God yourself. Find what you truly believe in and question it credibility, no matter what you base your trust on. I don’t care if you believe in yourself or if you believe in God, whatever the beliefs, just keep questioning and don’t become ignorant.
I think you’re interesting. And bold. And I’m glad that you question and raise these issues, points and behaviours of other religions. Cos it makes us believers question once again about what and why we truly believe in something.
I pray that shall someday find the truth to these questions. And when you find the truth, the truth shall set you free. Your life, you make the choices. Take care and God bless.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%208:32;&version=31;
about 3 years ago
Hello minishort,
err…saja-saja singgah di-sini jenguk-jenguk…alamak, nampaknya,puan-nya tengok hantuk-hantuk kepala kat dinding lagi…adui, sakitnya…
twotablet
about 3 years ago
shaunewe: ok thanks for volunteering to pastor me. i really appreciate it.
God bless.
about 3 years ago
and btw, since we’re at it.
DO i sound lost to you?
Are you more ‘found’ than me?
If not, let me assure you, I have been set free, and I’m still on this searching journey with Christ. , something apt in Christian-speak.
That apart. How certain are you that you’re somewhere ahead of me? Or how certain am I that I’m far lagging behind Christ’s ideals of how I should walk in Christ?
Somehow, Shaun, we both want to minister ‘lost souls’ to come back to the Lord, to be saved… but along the way, we need also to remind ourselves not to be too righteous, and be sinful in judging other people. At the end of the day, we’re all striving to be like Christ, but none of us can profess to be most in Christ than another person.
which also means to say I don’t really appreciate you coming and telling me that the truth will set me free, because I think I could also tell you the same thing, and you’ll end up in a quandary thinking ‘what on earth is minishorts talking about?’… nah… people like you never do get it, because to you every other believer is one step behind your achievements as a Christian.
Or at least, that’s how, you come across in your comments to me.
And btw, I need to remind you again that this is My blog. So don’t get holier than me. Because you’re annoying.
about 3 years ago
hi minishorts,
have been following your blog for some time.
seems that you are always being ‘harassed’ by fundamentalists.
that being said, i don’t think you shld be too ‘worked up’ by your muslim friend to reject an invitation to a church wedding.
similarly, if you had rejected his/her invitation to a mosque, alarm bells should not be ringing.
it doesn’t necessary mean that if you went to his/her mosque, he/she must come to a church wedding.
different people have different tolerance level when it comes to religious beliefs, and i believe we should accept that.
like in a relationship, do you expect to receive in the same quantity when you give out?
if so, then the relationship will not last.
my 0.5 cents,
keane
about 3 years ago
i know lah keane. just wondering … and matching strange behaviour.
likewise, believe this, i have friends who are appalled when i tell them ‘ I VISITED A MOSQUE’ … they tell me to be careful, less i turn muslim.
but just visiting a mosque doesn’t shake my faith.
because when faith is strong, not even death that take away that belief you hold so strongly too. you die in that faith.
about 3 years ago
i thought religion was about preaching love, about loving everybody and forgiveness. i wonder why they always ignore that part and go to the fire and brimstone and damnation and evil and satan and condescending “i feel compassion for you because you’re so deluded.”
bleh.
btw, havent been reading ur blog for quite sometime. just came by today and glad that it’s still the same, just more so.
about 3 years ago
=D
No, you don’t sound lost. And neither am I more found than you. Just like you, this whole thing is a journey, and we’re all walking down different paths, so i don’t think i’m ahead of you or behind you either ways. Being righteous is one thing. Judging others is another (it’s not right to judge so i dun think it’s righteous) but yes, you’re right, we must be watchful not to stumble along the way. More importantly, we have to watch our words since what we say may cause others to stumble too.
If you think my intention is to show that i’m a better christian that anyone or to put you down, then you’re wrong. If that’s how my words come across to you, I apologize. Come on, you are more than capable to take advice and grow from it. Don’t look at everything with cynism and retort.
Sorry if I annoyed you. It was fun, though.
about 3 years ago
fun what? annoying me?
about 3 years ago
there are ‘funny’ people everywhere
chinese saying goes: ????????
have a friend, who i knew in sec sch and lost contact with till uni
there he had became a staunch christian
tried to convert me but failed
he said something which i to date do not agree (not stating)
but nevertheless, we have gotten over that episode
went to his baptism ceremonywish him well
now he’s doing his pastoring work, which he is enjoying
and that is the most important thing to me
visited chinese and hindu temples, mosques, churches
i would say all gave me a sense of serenity in itself
all religions preaches good, which to me, is the bottomline
so to me, it doesn’t matter which religion you believe
as long as you believe that it’s good for yourself, i will be happy for you
even if i myself don’t believe in it
still a foggy day… =(
keane
about 3 years ago
I;m not sure if this is relevent here or not but it does have something to do with religions and their believe
In Malaysia, the moment a baby is born in a muslim famlily, the baby is convert to Islam straight away by their family. The child will grow up being pious to his/her religion because that is the religion that has been instilled into him/her ever since he/she was a child.
But, wht if the child is given the right to choose his/her religion. Wouldnt that change everything including his/her belief.
That led me to think. Not everyone has the right to choose their religion.
ps: i;m not sure wht i’m rambling here.
ray
about 3 years ago
Philippians 2:3-4 – Dont be selfish, dont live to make a good impression on others. Be humble, thinking of others as better than yourself. Dont think only about your own affairs, but be interested in others too and what they are doing.