Go, you Doomsday Preachers…
I sometimes suspect that Doomsday Evangelists are celebrating the Devil more than they are celebrating Christ's gift of life for us.
There you have it. A controversial suspicion to think about, and oh yes, the obvious declaration that minishorts is back to her anti-end-of-times rant all over again.
Just a few months ago, someone who has put her entire heart and soul into proclaiming God's kingdom so that it comes the soonest possible told me that a very very pure soul and one who is loved by Christ, will only need to listen, and 'She will be able to hear trumpets sounding in the sky.'
I now say that if one day comes and I can suddenly hear triumphant trumpets in the sky I would go straight to a doctor to find out if there's something wrong with my brain.
The other day some guy at a church told me Revelations is coming through because with the invention of bio-chips, we will all bear the sign of the devil. Unless of course you are a good Christian because a good Christian will refuse to bear the sign of the devil.
'So what are you doing then?'
'we should all be very afraid … because God is coming to judge.'
'So you're living life in fear is it?'
'Yes, we should be.'
'So is being Christian means living life in fear?'
'Not of God, but of the devil.'
'But believing in God means you should not be afraid of the devil mah.'
'I'm Christian because I want to go to heaven. That's a promise…'
I apologize for the leading questions, but damn it (pardon me)… why you guys so greedy one. You become Christian because of a candy-ticket. And that's not very nice of you at all.
Recently also several caring people have told me that I must read Mary K Baxter's A Divine Revelation of Hell. Well I read it and I think it is a piece of rubbish written by a woman who probably suffers from hallucinating spells.
Either I'm being paranoid or this observation is true, there IS a certain revival of End-Times-Theory in many evangelical churches. The interesting thing is several leaders have mentioned that the earthquakes and tsunamis and the ongoing wars around the world are signs of the end-of-days, and that we should be afraid, we should be very afraid. Never-mind that earthquakes are natural geological phenomena, and never mind that wars have existed from the beginning of time, history just doesn't matter. Because this current world has to be more fallen than the ones that have existed since time, so we have to be in it. Christ is riding the clouds soon.
CHIEW. SO STUPID AND PRESUMPTUOUS, okay? I beh-tahan. Why? Because civilizations have fallen and risen and we have been through this so many many times since over 2000 years ago. Of course I also view that Revelations is thick with allegory, hence my opinion that should not read it as is. Except of course very few people share this view with me… and I'm fine that, really.
I just wish that those of you who are so convicted in your beliefs will remain just that, convicted, and not force me to agree with you.
It's true. This girl has very little patience for people who insist that Christ will come and break through the clouds on his chariots of fire, because people who insist on reading the Book of Relevations LITERALLY probably agree also that GARFIELD is a cat that can really talk. I usually just keep my tongue because I'm outnumbered by the masses, most Christians I know can't wait for the world to end.
What if you're like me, someone who keeps saying that, 'Come on lah, stop obsessing over the Book of Relevations. It's not a book of doom, it ought to be a book of comfort, a book of solace, a reminder to believers that no matter what (end of days included) let us not fear (death, or end of days) because Christ is with us, and therefore we are saved.'
Where I come from, having this kind of observation and understanding makes me a prodigal child. Interestingly when Christians gather they like to discuss the end of the world a lot, as if the bunch of us are so tortured by the inequalities of the world and we can't do anything about this suffering so we keep on praying that God will send his judgement soon.
It's as if so many of us are all waiting for the last day to say to our detractors, 'HAH, PADAN MUKA. NOW YOU DIE IN HELL. I LIVE IN HEAVEN. WHEE WHEE I AM SO HAPPY.'
…
Today, I'm making this a very open statement, 'I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU. AND I PRAY THAT YOU WOULD STOP CELEBRATING THE DEVIL BY PUSHING FORTH YOUR END-TIMES-THEORY. GOD CAME TO SAVE US FROM SIN, NOT SCARE US INTO BECOMING A BUNCH OF HEAVEN-GREEDY MATERIALISTIC FOOLS.'
Some of you are going to start praying for me right now, that God will speak to me and show me the true path. I know it because you are predictable and boring like that.
Fine, whatever makes you tick. Go tick in your own space though. I'm functioning quite well here. Really, since I'm not about to change your minds, and you're not about to convince me that you're right, I hope the Revelation-preachers will stay far far away from this blog. Forever and ever, yay.
March 12th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
I’ve read more theologically laden arguments against a pre-millenial view of eschatology but yours would be the more passionate one I’ve read to date LOL
March 12th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
On a related note, I remember the days when the exclamation of “Maranatha” used to be a difficult one for me to say. There was always that nagging fear at the back of my head that I might be left behind
The journey that took me to eventually shift away from premillenialim and strict dispensationalism was gradual but it was also a very liberating one. I can now see why folks can exclaim “Maranatha” as an expression of hope even in the worst of circumstances.
Blessings.
March 12th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
I feel that I’m blowing off your entire post, but I have to say that you’re funny. and I think about the Revelations thing, I agree with you somewhat that it’s not something to impose on others your convictions, but a lot of people feel guilty for not doing things like evangelising, and being ‘Christian’-ly. And being Asian and performance-oriented, if you don’t do this, this and this, it’s very very bad. So it’s a problem probably with our theology and how it should transform our culture.
But if so, we are much ‘mature and better’ Christians, then give a break lah to our bros-and sis. But I also understand the crap you go through and how much it’s over-emphasised and it’s a blog, so rant all you want.
It’s just me trying to be fair and equal and compassionate even though sometimes I want to shut up people’s mouths too. But question is how can you be Asian and not live in fear as a Christian. Hard stuff.
Thanks for sharing. Question: Do you feel it hard to blog about religious stuff and all that? And get empty comments and questions from ‘non-religious’ people?
And yes, Amen to freedom in Christ. Amen, sis.
March 12th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
I enjoyed this post! Really, I can’t stand people shoving their “religious righteousness” down my throat…
God came to save us, we are not guaranteed an entrance to Heaven just because we became Christians. Judgement day will still come.
Take care and God bless!
Iris
March 12th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
You are the coolest Christian EVARR!!
It’s quite annoying when they say everything they say with such passion and conviction. Some are still quite acceptable, but when it comes to the part where they say that I’m a lost lamb/sheep/whatever, that does not make sense to me at all.
Not only that I am not a lamb/sheep/whatever, I’m not even lost.
Anyway, I like your blog. It’s a good read everytime.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:38 pm
‘probably agree also that GARFIELD is a cat that can really talk.’
You have mentioned the satanic talking cat! BURN! BURN BURN!!!! rofl!
Iris - ‘God came to save us, we are not guaranteed an entrance to Heaven just because we became Christians.’
Not sure if you meant that the way it reads. Yes, we are guaranteed an entrance into heaven. That’s what it’s all about. Becoming Christian means accepting that Christ died for us on the cross. He did the work, NOT US. We are saved by FAITH and NOT WORKS.
However, as MS has pointed out, having an unnatural obsession with Escatology [ie the end times] resulting in living in fear is NOT a Christian thing.
MS - Yes, the whole point of Revelation is a look behind the scenes of what is happening in the world [especially in the end times], though some of it might be happening from the moment Jesus was Crucified. [I'll leave some others to argue that point]
I’m not sure how anyone can interpret Revelation literally. [It's impossible isn't it?] After all, the number seven is used constantly to represent completness. DO they really think there are seven of everything? Seven spirits of God?
Anyway, getting back to the point I am meandering around. In the book of Revelation, even though terrible things are befalling the Earth and the Church, guess what the Christians are doing? Are they cowering in Fear? Are they running around like headless chooks? NO, they are PRAISING THE LORD.
Some people use fear to get what they want [similar to the 'Terror Threat' thing Bush and Blair have been using since 9/11 in order to remove peoples rights. That's why I'm scared to goto the UK now, as you have to give DNA samples before you can enter the country].
Anyway, point is, they use fear to control people, same way that soem churches use fear of hell and fear of the tribulation as a way to scare people into evangelism and other things.
[I was planning on writing more concerning Revelation, but I feel the problem isn't with the book. The problem is with the fear mongers, and if we got rid of Revelation they'd just start using the book of Daniel or othe books with Escatological content].
The point is though, Jesus told us to ALWAYS be ready, as he comes like a thief in the night. If people were right with Jesus, they wouldn’t need to feel scared at all. If they go through the tribulation then that is reason to rejoice, if they are lucky to avoid it then that is reason to rejoice as well. [Rejoice ALWAYS as the Bible says].
You don’t need the end times to be persecuted or tortured for your beliefs. There are enough idiots in the world to do that already.
So, my message to the ‘Escatological Crowd’ is, ALWAYS be ready and DON’T assume that we are in the end times already. People have been assuming that since the time of Nero. If you notice signs that you think DO POINT to the end times, then gird your loins. If you are truely in Christ, then it doesn’t matter if it is the end times or not, there is no reason to fear.
As Jesus said, the only one to fear is the one who has the power to cast you into the fires of hell … as a Christian, it isn’t going to happen, so don’t be afraid.
p.s. on a completely different issue, did you guys know that you can download FREE podcasts of the Bible being read form iTunes, as well as some podcasts of church sermons. Just thought I’d mention it.
March 13th, 2007 at 1:05 am
Wow.. well, I believe most of what I have to say have been said as well..
But well, I guess what those ‘fearful ones’ you’ve mentioned may have missed is that one of the important indicators (as mentioned in Mark 13:10) of Christ’s second coming is that the Gospel has to be first preached to all nations..
But there’s no denying that we ARE indeed living in the end-times.. just that we really don’t know exactly when Christ may come again. It may be tomorrow.. it may be next year.. it may even be 100 years down the road.
Although so, we really shouldn’t be so fearful up to the point is we’re only worried about getting ourselves to Heaven, which is really out of our control. We don’t work our way up to Heaven. We are saved by GRACE through FAITH. Fullstop on that.
Yes, God will judge in the end. But does that gives us the green light to be all so fearful that we think only about ourselves.. thinking that what we do now can help us escape from judgment? Nope.. we’ll all be judged based on what we’ve done or did not do throughout our life here on Earth whether we like it or not. Thinking only of ourselves will subject us to greater judgment as we should be in fact thinking about others.. those who have not heard the Gospel. Tell them about the Good News.. the Great News of how God came to us so that we might come to Him. Being overly worried about us getting of Heaven is just not what God would want us to do.
Christ didn’t come to impose such great fear. He came to give us HOPE.
And what’s with fearing the devil during such times? Goodness.. Christ’s resurrection has defeated the devil. Yes, persecution will come. But isn’t our Lord Jesus Christ above everything? He is in control.
To fear the devil or the put our trust in our sovereign Lord? God has promised to never leave us nor forsake us (Hebrews 13:5b). Such assurance.
I would anytime put my trust in the One who left His glory to come to live among us, paid the price for us on the cross, and rose up again to save us from eternal condemnation.
Yes, it is easier said that done. I really hope I will stick by my word when trials come.
March 13th, 2007 at 3:58 am
Forty-four percent of the American population is convinced that Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead sometime in the next fifty years. According to the most common interpretation of biblical prophecy, Jesus will return only after things have gone horribly awry here on earth. It is, therefore, not an exaggeration to say that if the city of New York were suddenly replaced by a ball of fire, some significant percentage of the American population would see a silver lining in the subsequent mushroom cloud, as it would suggest to them that the best thing that is ever going to happen was about to happen—the return of Christ. It should be blindingly obvious that beliefs of this sort will do little to help us create a durable future for ourselves—socially, economically, environmentally, or geopolitically. Imagine the consequences if any significant component of the U.S. government actually believed that the world was about to end and that its ending would be glorious. The fact that nearly half of the American population apparently believes this, purely on the basis of religious dogma, should be considered a moral and intellectual emergency.The book you are about to read is my response to this emergency…
March 13th, 2007 at 9:12 am
Mini,
One of your best posts… EVER! Keep it up babe, and you’ll find yourself as one of the top 10 (non political) bloggers of the year!
Cheers.
March 13th, 2007 at 9:28 am
Mini, really appreciate you once again for being outspoken about your frustrations. Can count on you for being so transparent in conveying your thoughts.
I agree with you. Many times Christians (including myself) don’t portray or exemplify of what Christ is all about. There’s nothing wrong with Christ and His principles, just that we the followers mess up all the time giving a poor reflection of what Christ is all about. And that’s a FACT.
“Mini: ….Just a few months ago, someone who has put her entire heart and soul into proclaiming God’s kingdom so that it comes the soonest possible told me that a very very pure soul and one who is loved by Christ, will only need to listen…â€
We keep on harping and focusing on the end times till we forgotten that we need to live in the “present†also because WE ARE RIGHT NOW LIVING IN THE PRESENT, can? And yes I have encountered many who are so “spiritually high who might as well be in heaven right now†(sorry for the tone used) that they are of NO earthly use.
“Mini: …I apologize for the leading questions, but damn it (pardon me)… why you guys so greedy one. You become Christian because of a candy-ticket…â€
Agree. Then who is the selfish one here? Christianity, Christ, His principles are more than just a “candy-ticket to paradiseâ€. If we cannot believe, see, and live past that, then what’s the point of believing in Him? Really. It would be REALLY SAD because the only reason we believe Christ died on the cross for us so that we can go to heaven. The message of Christ is MORE THAN THAT. It’s the same like “believing the only reason our parents work, sacrifice and toil so hard is to make sure we GET all their assets and money when they are no longer hereâ€. Sound a bit extreme, but yeah.
All in all, we are all learning together, let us be gracious to one another, with our brothers and sisters in Christ. Being gracious doesn’t mean we have to agree with one another ALL THE TIME, but to be able to love despite the differences. Aiyor, sound so preachy already. Sorry! We learn together-gether, can?
Mini, really appreciate you for writing this. Bless you,
alvin
March 13th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
Is it weird that I’m not even a Christian and I so totally know what she’s going through? First hand at that!
I even know of how she’s feeling.
Chill woman…now that you’ve vented to blogging glory, the patience starts to grow.
Man this is hillarious.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Thank heavens!!
Finally a level headed Christian.
Wish you well.
March 13th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
First of all, I’m not sure why you would actually call yourselves Christians, when in fact Christians mean…. followers of Christ. I do not believe in forcing someone to accept Christ, but really there are Christians, and there are “Christians”.
You choose which group u belong to.
The ones who really follow the teachings of the Creator? Or the ones who profess to be Christians, but really, who are they kidding when they say, I’ll be saved just because I’m a Christian?
Just my two cents.
Cheers
March 14th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Have you ever wonder, what if what they said were true?
I am not forcing you in any way, but let’s consider the matter. Let’s overlook the dommsday preacher’s behaviour that you dislike and focus on what they are saying. What if what they said according to the bible were true?
It was kind enough of them to remind you that the end times are here.. Actually, they have nothing to lose when they decided to speak to you about the end times. They are doing you a great favour.
One advice- search for the right answer before it’s too late. Before we can’t make any more right choices.
Because life is short.
God bless
March 14th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
same thing to wonder,
what if what we’re saying is also true? what if God actually doesn’t like all this end-times preaching? That all of this blasphemizing of other faiths and strange considerations, isn’t what Jesus would do?
that’s something to think about, isn’t it?
because ‘the kingdom of God is at hand.’ bless you too.
March 15th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
yes, you speak truthfully.
It is something to think about. I have been thinking along this line of thought for a very long time now..
I have thought through and have studied the other religion, and have gone meticulously through many, many views and opinions of christians of what the true church should be like..
Out of all the discoveries I found out that the problem of the church all originated from this;
We the church (christians) do not read the Bible continuously.
We christians do not understand what the Bible says. And relies on others to interpret what the Bible says, holding more to man’s interpretation more than the bible itself.
And because we as christians do not understand the bible, we christians do not practice the true faith.
Therefore though we are saved by grace, yet many of us will be lost along the way. It’s very sad, because the moment we stop learning the bible, we will become dull and lifeless. Life becomes pages of complaints.
Consider carefully the verse below; and see how many of us (including myself) manage to catch God’s attention..
Isaiah 66:2 For all those things has mine hand made, and all those things have been, says the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembles at my word.
Matthew 2:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
March 15th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
sorry it should read matthew 24:12-13
March 15th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
CD - ‘Christian’ does not mean follower of Christ. It means Christ one. The reason for this is the Early Christians were trying to make themselves like Christ in a spiritual way.
‘The ones who really follow the teachings of the Creator? Or the ones who profess to be Christians, but really, who are they kidding when they say, I’ll be saved just because I’m a Christian?’
In the sense that I’ve described above, the ‘True Christian’ is a person who is moving towards becoming like Christ. It is true that just because someone says they’re a Christian doesn’t mean they are one. But, the true Christians are saved by Faith as they’ve accepted that Christ paid the penalty for sin. That’s what is meant by, ‘I’ll be saved because I am Christian’.
Shinsetsuken - ‘Have you ever wonder, what if what they said were true?’
Whether it is the end times or not isn’t the point. As I stated above, if someone is right with God, then the end times will not matter. The Church in Revelation were praising God, even through the Tribulation. It doesn’t sound like a church in Fear as some of the ‘Doomsday preachers’ are trying to create with their ‘Fear What is about to happen’.
God will not tempt us beyond what we can handle. Jesus is coming like a thief in the night, so it doesn’t really matter, because the truh be told, as soon as Jesus was resurrected, it was the start of the end times.
The Bible specifically tells us, ‘Do Not Fear’, so why is it that peopel try to put the fear of the end times into us? Is it really from God?
The only time we are told to fear is when we are told to Fear God.
But, like 1 John says, ‘Perfect Love drives out fear’. So what is it these people are trying to give us if they are trying to make people fear? It is obviously not he perfect love of Jesus.
Preaching escatology in order to try to convert people through fear is not from Jesus. The Escatology in the Bible was meant for Christians. But, it was not thre for Christians to be put in states of Fear, but to take away their fear, as they knew these things would be coming, and thus would know it is part of what is going to happen, so they would fear not when it came to pass.
Preaching escatology with the hope of frieghtening people is like trying to tell people on a railway track that a train is coming. Those who do not belive will not get off the tracks and will not fear anyway. Those who believe will get off the tracks, but won’t fear as they are off the tracks and won’t get run over. So, preaching fear is pointless.
And that’s what the real crux of the problem is. MS has been very specific about the fact that these peopel she’s spoken to beleive we should be afraid of the devil.
Sorry, but I fear no man, and I fear no devil or demon. I will fear no evil, even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death …because God walks with me.
March 16th, 2007 at 11:16 am
This entry reminds me of something what Bush said during the Iraq War… either we are with him or we are with them. And when the war starts, the good or the bad soldiers are judged by the sides they stood by at the war… and Bush also used the fear tactic to try to get everyone involve into that war and be his ally saying Iraq has WMD to blast everyone to pieces…
Now… do you see the analogy? The point is, from my point of view as a Buddhist, someone should be judged by the deeds of what one did in their lives and not by just accepting the Saviour just to avoid going to Hell…
And to add on it… although it may sound very atheist, every religion is promoting their own version of truth, indirectly discrediting other religion, that if you follow my religion, you will be in Heaven. If not then to Hell it is. Do we really know the Truth? We only believe it’s the true because we wanted it to believe so.
March 16th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
pikey - ‘not by just accepting the Saviour just to avoid going to Hell…’
It doesn’t work that way. I’m writing this to show you the Christian perspective [just so you understand it].
Accepting Jesus as Saviour doesn’t just mean ’saying’ that you have him as saviour. The fact is, accepting him as saviour means accepting that he is in charge of our lives and allowing him to make the changes within us. It’s also not just to ‘avoid going to hell’. It’s about doing the right thing by God and others.
As the Bible says, from that flows the ‘Fruits of the Spirit’. They include kindness to others, love etc etc accepting the things that Jesus places on our heart.
Accepting Jesus as Saviour really means allowing God free reign over our hearts. It’s like a construction site in a way.
But, it is similar to when I am helping one of the young ofenders I get at work. If they WANT to change, I can help them and give them tools to help themselves. If they don’t, then they’ll end up just leving the centre and re-offending again [and off to Jail].
’someone should be judged by the deeds of what one did in their lives ‘
In theory someone who has truely accepted Jesus as Saviour would have the deeds flowing on from there. As the Bible states, ‘Faith without Deeds is Dead Faith’. If someone accepts Jesus as Saviour then it means Jesus is in charge, not us.
Too many religions like to try the ‘50%’ good gets you over the mark and into Heaven type of things. [as though it is an exam].
I’ve heard too many people try to argue that if a person kills one person and then saves the life of another that it somehow redeems them. Life doesn’t work that way. Saving the second persons life won’t bring back the first person. You’ve still ruined the first persons life, and from a Christian perspective, saving the second person is the sort of thing you should do anyway, so therefore you haven’t really achieved anything.
So really, when someone does do a good deed, they’re really doing what they’re supposed to do anyway, so counting deeds won’t work. It’s like expecting ‘more money’ or ’special treatment’ from your boss for just doing your job. If you are doing what you’re supposed to be doing, then you get paid what was agreed upon, not anything extra or special.
‘This entry reminds me of something what Bush said during the Iraq War’
And so it should remind you of it. What Bush said was something Jesus said. Jesus said, ‘Those who are not for me, are against me.’
Bush’s speaches were directed at Americans, a lot of whom are Christian, so his speach writers use a lot of Christian terms and imagry in orer to try to get the people on his side. It’s the usual politician propaganda machine.
‘every religion is promoting their own version of truth, indirectly discrediting other religion, that if you follow my religion, you will be in Heaven. If not then to Hell it is’
I agree with you on this. After all, in a way all religions have a huge marketing compaign going on [whether we want to beleive it or not].
Don’t expect it to disappear any time soon either. After all, almsot every religion on earth calims to be the one true faith. [And there are even ornery Athiests and Agnostics out there too who try to convert people to their way of thinking].
But, getting back to explaining the Christian perspective.
God expects perfection. That is, he expects everyone to act and behave perfectly. The problem is, none of us ever do. [Not even me]. We are expected to help each other to be th best we can. If one of us gets into trouble, we are expected to help each other [and as Christians, we're expectd to help EVERYONE, not jsut other Christians].
So, at the end of the day, counting deeds won’t work, as we’d all find ourselves very much lower in the deeds count than what God expects.
It’s a bit like jumping from one cliff to another. Making it 50% of the way isn’t going to help you in the least. In fact, making it 99.99% of the way won’t get you across.
Therefore, as the Bible says, the wages of Sin is death. [Sin literally means to MISS the target]. So, as per the Christian perspective, something needed to be done, else all humanity was destined to the fires of hell. That something was Jesus. Jesus is like a bridge from cliff to cliff so to speak. So, those who accept Jesus have effectively accepted to take the bridge across the gap. It’s not through our own works, but by fait that the bridg is there. [Thus the term, Saved by Faith alone and not by works].
Not accepting what Jesus has done is a little like trying to jump the gap without the bridge. Thus, trying to make it over on ones own.
I hope that makes the Christian perspective a little clearer.
And ‘no’ I wasnt’ trying to scare anyone into converting or anything. I was just trying to explain the Christian perspective.
March 22nd, 2007 at 10:16 am
I would totally agree with Mini…why are people harping abt the end times when we should be concentrating on the GREAT COMMISSION. Jesus asks us to spread the word to all the earth..
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28: 18-20
And why should we live in fear? Even if the world ends tomorrow, Jesus said he will be with us ALWAYS till the very end of age..
Praise God!!